the shamen: c/d

Awwww, Colin Angus was genuinely adorable in a kind of Ralf Hütter-esque way, and I really hope he was a kind and lovely sort of fellow, as well as an earnest psychonaut.

Yes, very much so.

What happened to the other member of the rock version of the Shamen besides Sinnot, btw? Were they still around after they switched to dance music, or was it only Colin Angus

I used to see one of the brothers from the rock version around Edinburgh during that era and as far as I recall he didn't do anything music related after The Shamen.

https://www.nemeton.com/static/nemeton/sitemap.html

it's pretty evenly split between the more poppy Eurodance tunes and more experimental trancey tunes

So out of my depth when I try to discuss genre names and assignments here, but the stuff I loved from them was stuff I would consider big, ridiculous, rock-riff Stadium House - I suppose that's the more Eurodance end?

I don't mind Angus' voice. He's not a strong singer, but when he's double-tracked and harmonised he does a capable choirboy. That's what I enjoyed - the contrast between these big Stadium House gestures, the female singers giving it everything, Mr C's theatrics, and then these slightly weedy indie boy vocals that reminded me of like, Ride or something? That's what made it charming for me, the unexpected mixture.

(the glittery dude is Karl Hyde, the lead singer and guitarist of Underworld)

Aww, I didn't recognise Karl. I should have known. I love him - he was in the Conny Plank film being all excitable about Krautrock. <3

Wow, the Nemeton.com has actually preserved the Axis Mutatis era site as I remember it from 1995/6:

https://www.nemeton.com/static/nemeton/axis-mutatis

Here's some further information on "S2 Translation":

"The track 'S2 Translation' was generated from the DNA sequence and the amino acid characteristics of the S2 protein. The time signature of the piece is given by the codon: 3 base pairs per codon gives one codon per bar, hence the time signature is 3/4 or waltz time.The 'top line melody' comes directly from the base pair sequence itself (the bases cystosine, adenine, guanine and thymidine being mapped to the notes C, A G and E respectively) while progressions in the bass are reflective of the characteristics of the amino acids which are the result of translation. The number and nature of bass notes per codon/bar were determined by the hydrophobicity/hydrophilicity, ionic charge (positive or negative) and size of each amino acid residue (Proline, for example,which has no characteristics other than its small size, can be identified easily as the bars where the bass line 'drops out'). The musical output resulting from these rules was further processed by mapping the notes onto different tonalities, both to make the piece more interesting, and to suggest the organisation of the protein molecule into regions of different secondary structure (although since S2 is a membrane protein and thus impossible to crystallise outside the lipid bilayer, this was definitely creative licence).

S2 is the receptor protein for 5-hydroxy tryptamine (Serotonin) and presumably for other tryptamines as well. It is thus one of the most important molecules in the mediation of both ordinary and non-ordinary (or "Shamanic") states of consciousness, which is why the molecule was chosen for this piece." - Colin Angus

So out of my depth when I try to discuss genre names and assignments here, but the stuff I loved from them was stuff I would consider big, ridiculous, rock-riff Stadium House - I suppose that's the more Eurodance end?

The Eurodance formula at its purest was: a pop-house beat + melismatic lead vocals, usually sung by a woman + a verse or two of Euro rapping. Their singles like "L.S.I." and "Phorever People" fit the formula perfectly, by Axis Mutatis they'd tweaked it a bit by Angus being the only lead vocalist, but other than it still fits the mold.

Though out of the vocal songs on Axis Mutatis, the one I like the most is actually "Prince of Popocatapetl", which is slower and moodier, doesn't have Mr. C. rapping, and sounds more like synth-pop than Eurodance.

Sorry, Tuomas I just went and read up a few ILM thread about Eurodance, and one of your polls revealed that the genre-defining track was Technotronic: Pump Up the Jam (which is admittedly one of the greatest songs ever recorded). So, basically Tom Ewing anthems. It's funny, when that material is done well, it's one of my sweetest sweet spots. But when it strays too far into Schlager, the returns diminish fast as it approaches pure cheese. (Which could be said about any pop genre.)

There needs to be a dose of genuine WTF insanity in a good Stadium House tune - something that makes you sit up and go "WTF just happened on TOTP?!?!?" Like Ebeneezer Goode is the archetype of that?

Listening to Prince of Popocatapetl now, and it's a bit too chill. Destination Eschaton, I knew as a single. Conquistador is sounding more like what I'd want. It's that choppy tremolo synth sound that does it for me, rather than the more echoey synth pad sounds.

Someone I know regularly mentions the bonus ambient (?) album that came with early copies of Axis Mutatis so I keep an eye out for the 2CD but haven't found it offline yet.

Plavka (vocalist on Hypereal and later on Jam and Spoon’s awful Right in the Night)
I love the Shamen, but "Right in the Night" and "Find Me" are still better than any of their singles.

― Tuomas, Thursday, 6 August 2020 08:58 (one hour ago) link

SACRILEGE!! But "Stella" on the other hand, remains a classic.

I loved 1993, and Emprion "Narcotic Influence" is peak 1993 for me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLr3dSekkIY

Sorry, Tuomas I just went and read up a few ILM thread about Eurodance, and one of your polls revealed that the genre-defining track was Technotronic: Pump Up the Jam

I'm sure that's because them majority of the voters are from the US and the UK, and that song was a big hit in both countries. But most of Eurodance was made and consumed in continental Europe, and for us the most emblematic Eurodance song would probably be 2 Unlimited's "No Limit", which wasn't a hit in the US, and which was released UK as an edited version without Ray's eurorapping, only with Anita's singing.

the most emblematic Eurodance song would probably be 2 Unlimited's "No Limit"

Naturally I must agree with this.

Talking about Eurodance here is a red herring really, just in case of where they came from and where they fitted in (as opposed to where they briefly ended up in 1992). A song like LSI is as much a cockney geezer/Scottish hippy take on Kevin Saunderson as anything else.

you people made me listen to Phorward yesterday and it stands up and also demonstrates that the Shamen got Bleep Music way faster than any of their reformed indie chancer contemporaries that i can think of

OK, I'm listening to No Limit right now (I only knew the UK version, natch) and I think we're broadly in agreement about what we're talking about.

This would fit perfectly within what I'd call Stadium House - I guess what I mean by that term is... correct me if I'm wrong, but most dance music is about the beat. When you listen to a dance track - case in point, the Emprion track above - usually it starts with the beat so that a DJ can mix it into the previous track, then adds the rhythmic components that make up the distinctive groove, that groove is what makes the song the song, and other elements are added, such as a vocal hook or a memorable riff.

In what I'd call Stadium House, it STARTS with the riff. In the 2 Unlimited track, they bash you immediately over the head with that amazing "DURR DURR DUH-DUH DURR-DURR" riff. You can stick an acid beat under it, you can stick a house beat or a disco beat or whatever under the riff, and do a million remixes. But the riff, the hook is the thing, and not necessarily the groove.

because The Shamen started as a rock band, I think their most distinctive work is about The Riff. That Make It Mine and Move Any Mountain are about the riff, the pop hook, the chant - a lot of UK dance acts of this era (the KLF were classic at this) were about taking a football chant of a vocal riff, and building a song around it.

LOL, Persephone's Quest just came on, and my immediate reaction was "this is an early Spiritualized track, right?" It's got the exact wubwubwub sounds, the exact same shimmer, it's everything I loved about the early 90s in terms of ~sonic texture~.

I guess my mistake was, I was after that specific sound, and followed a bunch of dronerock bands that were producing that sound - into all kinds of rockist nonsense I now regret. Where there's another parallel dimension where I could very easily have gone the other way and sought that sound out in Trance. (Which would have had its own nonsense.)

YES I SAID SONIC TEXTURE DID YOU MISS ME

(don't all shout "no" at once)

Naturally I must agree with this.

― Basil Ker-ching (Noel Emits),

things you were shockingly old when / puns you had missed

The origin of the user name is actually as much John Lilly's province of the mind maxim as 2 Unlimited which is a very The Shamen combo as it happens.

you people made me listen to Phorward yesterday and it stands up and also demonstrates that the Shamen got Bleep Music way faster than any of their reformed indie chancer contemporaries that i can think of

totally OTM.
i mean i loved Gorbachev and all, but this was when i really began to take notice.

That pun could have been clearer, except emit has a long vowel? If it had been Noel Emmetts, 'twould have been clearer but ah well. I get the joke now.

I have to applaud Noel Emits' long game here

also I am very annoyed that Phorward isn't on US Spotify

the 99 reissue is rather pricey on amazon !
i guess not many copies were pressed up.
you can read the sleeve notes written by Paul Lester via the Discogs listing of it.

I found the good version of En-Tact on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehiddG5Sv3M

Freewheelin' just like Franklin.

Hang on, the track list given in the description doesn't seem to match the running order in the video?

It doesn't?

Oh, do you mean the algorithmically-generated one? I always ignore that.

You want this from the description:

01. 00:00:00 Human NRG
02. 00:03:23 Progen (Land Of Oz)
03. 00:07:29 Possible Worlds
04. 00:11:14 Omega Amigo
05. 00:15:58 Hyperreal
06. 00:20:30 Lightspan
07. 00:26:17 Make It Mine V2.5
08. 00:30:14 Oxygen Restriction
09. 00:34:02 Evil Is Even
10. 00:47:16 Human NRG (Massey)
11. 00:51:53 Make It Mine V1.3 (Pirate Radio)
12. 00:56:47 Oxygen Reprise V2.0
13. 01:02:05 Hear Me O My People (Orbital - Delays Expected)

Sorry, I'm being an idiot. Forgot Move Any Mountain was called Progen (Land Of Oz) on the album. I only ever had the 12" singles from this period, at the time. It's cool to hear how they fit together.

Oh, lol! I only ever call it "Pro-Gen" because it reinforces my "I was there" cred that's the first name I heard it under

That running order does kind of fall over at Evil Is Even which, being a 13 minute+ tribal ambient track, is a sudden and sustained drop in energy. It would make better sense as a final track but it's also followed by two vereions that appear earlier and an Orbital collab that also drags IIRC.

* versions of tracks that appear earlier

I treat everything after "Evil Is Even" as a bonus track

this makes me want to listen to ex:el by 808 state

I'm sure the idea was to add value but for that reason it's never quite worked as CD.

LOL, I just ended up working half an hour past my allotted finish time because I was so caught up in this. If everything past Evil Is Even is a bonus track, I can knock off now.

::curses adorable Scottish hippies for making me work too hard::

::shakes rave-cane in Dan's direction::

OMG that Orbital collaboration does not drag. Always been one of the high points for me

OMG!

i tried to start a stadium house thread recently, it went nowhere

t/s - kate bush vs gwen guthrie + annie lenox

utah saints were much better than the shamen, i think

btw i think the line between riff and rhythm is complicated and fuzzy in most dance music if not outright erased so i'm not sure it's a useful distinction. that said the two utah saints tracks do start in unmixable fashion so maybe there's something to it.

Maybe if you'd called it "Stadium House - classic or dud" it would have gone down a bit better? I think the defining quality of Stadium House is that it has a very distinct chant, that could plausibly be sung in the terraces of a football stadium. I think the KLF and the Shamen excelled at that aspect.

What Utah Saints track do you reccommend I start with, because I can't really remember them at all?

(They just kind of blur into a whole mass of other acts like Renegade Soundwave and Meat Beat Manifesto so maybe I've got completely the wrong idea of them.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o712mgqVZXI

Also this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-_HJohPg5Y

Utah Saints ruled

hell I’ll ride for their “new gold dream”

bugger.
you guys are going to make me dig out the second album by utah saints aren't you.
listened to it a couple of times, enjoyed the chuck d appearance, cant remember much else.
their first album is absolutely fantastic, not so sure re the second one.

oh, and like the shamen, i think the debut by utah saints had a very different uk vs us tracklisting

yup.

US debut :

https://www.discogs.com/Utah-Saints-Utah-Saints/release/65265

UK debut :

https://www.discogs.com/Utah-Saints-Utah-Saints/release/23919

Wasn't the second album mainly breakbeat? xps