Post a controversial music opinion

Music peaked in 1927. There is still some good stuff out there now though.

I've stopped rating albums on RYM for the most part because it had become a meaningless chore for me but out of the 24 (non-classical) releases to which I gave five stars, only one is from the 80s and it's ECM-style chamber jazz. Nine are from the 90s, so yeah, we're all hopelessly biased.

xxp Related thought (and counterpoint) from Scott Miller in Music: What Happened (I don't necessarily agree or disagree, but it's an interesting line of argument):

The nineties were better than the eighties, and one key reason was that there was less originality. Originality is unmusical. The urge to do music is an admiring emulation of music one loves; the urge toward originality happens under threat that the music that sounds good to you somehow isn't good enough.

i.e., the 80s may indeed have been more experimental and diverse, but that didn't necessarily make the music better (for Miller, at least).

Agree to disagree. When I think of the 80s, I think of Erasure, Husker Du, and Cyndi Lauper. When I think of the 90s, I think of Silverchair, Collective Soul, and 4 Non Blondes

And the "originality is unmusical" argument would support the idea that Nirvana worshipers / misunderstanders Puddle of Mudd were somehow more "musical" than Kate Bush

I have fonder memories of Collective Soul than of all the 80s acts you just cited (I was tempted to add 'combined', but that'd be plain trolling).

Love Husker Du. Erasure can gtfo obv.

That Scott Miller quote is completely idiotic btw, esp as a defence of 90s popular music.

The very fact that '90s music' doesn't sound like 18th century music means that someone had to be original at some point to bring music to that evolutionary peak.

I've never heard "The '80s are crap," not when '80s comps got releases in 1993 and 1994. What I DO hear, and it drives me bats, is how a DX-7 sound is "dated," "of its time," while some Rickenbacker jangle from 1965 is "timeless."

xxp It's obviously simplistic, but I think it's thought-provoking, at least. A lot of the '90s music I love is very purposely looking back to older music, with various degrees of self-consciousness, irony, etc. And it seems true that '80s music (which I don't connect with as much - maybe just due to my age, I was a teen / young adult in the '90s) doesn't seem to do this as much.

Like, I'm not sure how many people a decade older than me - who "came of age" in the '80s - are really into Pavement; I get the sense that Pavement are too derivative for the crowd that came up with SST bands, Husker Du, etc. in the '80s. (The Pavement guys themselves are that age, of course.)

Agree to disagree. When I think of the 80s, I think of Erasure, Husker Du, and Cyndi Lauper. When I think of the 90s, I think of Silverchair, Collective Soul, and 4 Non Blondes

― Paul Ponzi, Monday, August 3, 2020

What about Aaliyah, Mary J. Blige, Babyface, Janet Jackson, Notorious BIG, and Missy Elliott? An extraordinary R&B and hip-hop era!

(xp to myself) ...or Royal Trux, Unrest, Sebadoh - name your history-conscious '90s indie band of choice. People born in the '60s, and thrashing in '80s mosh pits, don't seem to really connect with those bands so much?

Every time I succumb to the temptation to say, "X decade sucked!" I ask myself, "What did I miss out on and how was I wrong?"

B-b-but the SST deal was punk rock guys looking back to 60s and 70s rock in the first place.

https://youtu.be/xBKyBlJ_JN8

https://youtu.be/rWH8Xa4zGzA

music peaked in the 80s

the 1780s

Anyway, this was the actual peak and people have just been shuffling deck chairs since:

18th century music

xp!

Book 1 of Well-Tempered Clavier was 1720s, though.

Every time I succumb to the temptation to say, "X decade sucked!" I ask myself, "What did I miss out on and how was I wrong?"

I'm with you on that, but although my understanding of the 80s has deepened over the past 10-15 years, when push comes to shove, I still earnestly feel like the 90s marked a quantum leap forward for almost every single pop-adjacent genre I can think of. 90s hip-hop, r&b, metal and electronic are all ultimately better than their 80s predecessors imo. Old habits…

In fairness, Scott Miller's point was perhaps somewhat less nuanced than mine; he's talking about "Cherub Rock" when he writes the above, and he goes on to say:

In the nineties, bands pretty much had a single thought: we want to be the next Nirvana. Bands had the least fear in years that following their hearts and doing straight fuzz-guitar pop-rock was somehow old-fashioned. There were a lot of good songs. Life was simple.

I can't endorse this line of argument!!

Bach wrote "Hell Bent for Leather" iirc

It's all gone downhill since Pérotin's Viderunt omnes tbh.

I still earnestly feel like the 90s marked a quantum leap forward for almost every single pop-adjacent genre I can think of. 90s hip-hop, r&b, metal and electronic are all ultimately better than their 80s predecessors imo. Old habits…

Disco and synth pop allowed for a wider range of queer expression in the '80s though.

Most definitely true.

90s hip-hop and metal were really the second wave which broke away from the established limitations but when it comes to metal I worship the 80s like a golden cow

Celtic Frost, Slayer, Iron Maiden, Possessed, Mercyful Fate, Bathory, early Death, Bolt Thrower, Candlemass, etc.… all of them rule but what came after is one another level imo.

(I am aware that this is a patently ridiculous argument. I'm curious to hear from fellow millennials (ugh) who prefer the 80s or who think they're on par with the 90s.)

I think I would rather go clubbing in the 80s

You could fuck a guy and die!

sad lol

What about Aaliyah, Mary J. Blige, Babyface, Janet Jackson, Notorious BIG, and Missy Elliott? An extraordinary R&B and hip-hop era!

I'll concede it was a golden age for rap and r&b, but in the case of the former the most innovative shit (Native Tongues, Nas, Main Source, Hieroglyphics, Hit Squad, etc etc etc) all took place in the first half of the decade, with many carrying over from the 80s (PE, BDP, Ultramagnetic MCs). After 94 or 95, my prevailing memory of the decade is Puffy and Faith Evans

Like, I'm not sure how many people a decade older than me - who "came of age" in the '80s - are really into Pavement; I get the sense that Pavement are too derivative for the crowd that came up with SST bands, Husker Du, etc. in the '80s. (The Pavement guys themselves are that age, of course.)

I think we shouldn't think of "innovative" as a yardstick imo, especially since it's an adjective most often applied retroactively.

and how were Missy Elliott, Blige, Aaliyah, etc NOT innovative? As outgrowths of rap-influenced R&B, they sounded like nothing before the Teddy Riley productions of the late eighties.

can't argue with objective opinion

I'm going try an 19th century style diet of found-on-teh-pavement-next-to-dogshit festering maggot bacon and raw cabbage & liquorice to see if explosive farts smelled much better back then as well..... -=≡~ξ-＿-*) yeah they did!

Scott Miller was a v clever man but he's always struck me as not understanding exactly what made his own music so good - he was always much more original than he thought he was

numerology is for feebs; go 66-75, 76-85, 86-95 or go home

I'm going try an 19th century style diet of found-on-teh-pavement-next-to-dogshit festering maggot bacon and raw cabbage & liquorice to see if explosive farts smelled much better back then as well..... -=≡~ξ-＿-*) yeah they did!

If you've never caught so much as a whiff of a pleasant fragrance, they most certainly did!

originality = booshit
algebra = booshit
(controversial) opinions = booshit
innovation = oh god gak

numerology is for feebs; go 66-75, 76-85, 86-95 or go home

Either you're gerrymandering or current periodizations are already gerrymandered (inclined towards the latter hypothesis myself).

what non-gerrymandered taxonomy is there also who cares, i just think those periods are more coherent

Platonic taxonomy or bust

How about 66-76 (Aristocracy), 77-89 (Timocracy), 90-00 (Oligarchy), 01-09, (Democracy), 10-20 (Tyranny)?

I love music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJZHm5_i1vI