I've never heard "The '80s are crap," not when '80s comps got releases in 1993 and 1994. What I DO hear, and it drives me bats, is how a DX-7 sound is "dated," "of its time," while some Rickenbacker jangle from 1965 is "timeless."
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 August 2020 19:39 (four years ago) link
Joy Division, This Heat, Wire, The Cure and PiL are the ones I return to the most.xp
― pomenitul, Monday, 3 August 2020 19:40 (four years ago) link
I grew up in the US in the 80s, and yes, it felt like the entire decade of the 70s had been memory holed. 70s music and styles went through quite a rehabilitation in the 90s.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Monday, 3 August 2020 19:43 (four years ago) link
xpI definitely did absorb some "80s are bad" propaganda, grounded in that exact "dated sound" double standard. I grew up being told that early digital sounds were cheap or cheezy compared to 60s and 70s analogue (what was less clear was what 90s sounds were; if pushed I think the narrative would have been that synths and drum machines "got better").
― rob, Monday, 3 August 2020 19:44 (four years ago) link
what was less clear was what 90s sounds were; if pushed I think the narrative would have been that synths and drum machines "got better" if pushed I think the narrative would have been that synths and drum machines "got better"
Yes, that sounds right.
― Sonny Shamrock (Tom D.), Monday, 3 August 2020 19:46 (four years ago) link
A lot of digital tech fell out of favor and was replaced with either vintage or vintage-emulating gear. For example, there was a big boost of interest in tube amplifiers.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Monday, 3 August 2020 19:52 (four years ago) link
early 80s is one of the best times for music ever, late 80s is patchy but loads of brilliant dance music, and plenty of other good stuff out there. Mid 80s is a bit of a dead zone, like 85/86 especially, and must have seemed horrible compared to half a decade earlier, I was a bit too young to really be paying attention, but this is what wlmy research indicates
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 3 August 2020 19:53 (four years ago) link
and the R&B 1980-1986 = amazing
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 August 2020 19:58 (four years ago) link
I am an 80s creature and I always will be. There were times in the 80s when top 40 radio felt (to me) like a delirious and fairly diverse party, with things that were truly inexplicable existing side-by-side.
When I was in junior high school it would have felt totally normal to hear "Valley Girl," "Word Up," "Pass the Dutchie," "She Blinded me with Science," "Mexican Radio," "Rock the Casbah," "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun," "Everyday I Write the Book," "Red Red Wine," "I Feel for You," "Jam on it," "Rhythm of the Night," "Let's Dance," "Down Under," "Puttin' on the Ritz," "Rock me Amadeus," "Union of the Snake," "Crazy for You," "Night Shift," "Whip It," and "Beat it" in quick succession. Sure, Casey Kasem was filtering everything and major record labels were the devil (as ever). But to me (the white kid in a black neighborhood), pop music felt pretty optimistic and open and embracing.
I admit I don't have a ton of evidence for this (and will probably get thoroughly dragged) but: it feels to me like in subsequent years, radio listenership (and individual listening patterns) became more siloed after that. When I got to high school there were metal kids and new-wave kids and pop kids and rap kids; people tended to focus their listening rather than broadening it.
― we slept on the banks on the leaves of a banyan tree (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 3 August 2020 20:07 (four years ago) link
Interesting. As a kid in the late 80s, it already seemed like a lot of people thought the 80s sucked (and I wasn't always inclined to disagree). 60s stuff seemed especially revered but rock radio was also pretty heavy on 70s artists. If anything, a lot of the contemporary songs on rock radio were still by people like the Wilburys, Robert Plant, Clapton, Tom Petty, Rush, Genesis, Aerosmith, Cheap Trick.
I mean, these artists weren't really the 80s as most people experienced them, I don't think:
The FallHüsker DüMinutemenMy Bloody ValentineNick Cave & The Bad SeedsThe SmithsXTC
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Monday, 3 August 2020 21:27 (four years ago) link
I mean, these artists weren't really the 80s as most people experienced them, I don't think
True – likewise, my perception of the 90s is a crude mixture of imprinted memories and retrospective discoveries and projections.
― pomenitul, Monday, 3 August 2020 21:54 (four years ago) link
I guess I never completely overcame the 'the 80s were the worst decade for music ever' mentality that was somehow drilled into me at a young age.
Compared to the 90s, the 80s were far more experimental, diverse, and interesting
Music has gotten worse with every successive decade imo
but I'm old
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 August 2020 22:34 (four years ago) link
Music peaked in 1927. There is still some good stuff out there now though.
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 3 August 2020 22:45 (four years ago) link
I've stopped rating albums on RYM for the most part because it had become a meaningless chore for me but out of the 24 (non-classical) releases to which I gave five stars, only one is from the 80s and it's ECM-style chamber jazz. Nine are from the 90s, so yeah, we're all hopelessly biased.
― pomenitul, Monday, 3 August 2020 22:46 (four years ago) link
xxp Related thought (and counterpoint) from Scott Miller in Music: What Happened (I don't necessarily agree or disagree, but it's an interesting line of argument):
The nineties were better than the eighties, and one key reason was that there was less originality. Originality is unmusical. The urge to do music is an admiring emulation of music one loves; the urge toward originality happens under threat that the music that sounds good to you somehow isn't good enough.
― Rob, give a listen to Iggy Stooge (morrisp), Monday, 3 August 2020 22:55 (four years ago) link
i.e., the 80s may indeed have been more experimental and diverse, but that didn't necessarily make the music better (for Miller, at least).
― Rob, give a listen to Iggy Stooge (morrisp), Monday, 3 August 2020 22:56 (four years ago) link
Agree to disagree. When I think of the 80s, I think of Erasure, Husker Du, and Cyndi Lauper. When I think of the 90s, I think of Silverchair, Collective Soul, and 4 Non Blondes
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 August 2020 23:02 (four years ago) link
And the "originality is unmusical" argument would support the idea that Nirvana worshipers / misunderstanders Puddle of Mudd were somehow more "musical" than Kate Bush
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 August 2020 23:04 (four years ago) link
I have fonder memories of Collective Soul than of all the 80s acts you just cited (I was tempted to add 'combined', but that'd be plain trolling).
― pomenitul, Monday, 3 August 2020 23:08 (four years ago) link
Love Husker Du. Erasure can gtfo obv.
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:13 (four years ago) link
That Scott Miller quote is completely idiotic btw, esp as a defence of 90s popular music.
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:14 (four years ago) link
The very fact that '90s music' doesn't sound like 18th century music means that someone had to be original at some point to bring music to that evolutionary peak.
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:15 (four years ago) link
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:15 (four years ago) link
xxp It's obviously simplistic, but I think it's thought-provoking, at least. A lot of the '90s music I love is very purposely looking back to older music, with various degrees of self-consciousness, irony, etc. And it seems true that '80s music (which I don't connect with as much - maybe just due to my age, I was a teen / young adult in the '90s) doesn't seem to do this as much.
― Rob, give a listen to Iggy Stooge (morrisp), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:17 (four years ago) link
Like, I'm not sure how many people a decade older than me - who "came of age" in the '80s - are really into Pavement; I get the sense that Pavement are too derivative for the crowd that came up with SST bands, Husker Du, etc. in the '80s. (The Pavement guys themselves are that age, of course.)
― Rob, give a listen to Iggy Stooge (morrisp), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:19 (four years ago) link
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, August 3, 2020
What about Aaliyah, Mary J. Blige, Babyface, Janet Jackson, Notorious BIG, and Missy Elliott? An extraordinary R&B and hip-hop era!
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:20 (four years ago) link
(xp to myself) ...or Royal Trux, Unrest, Sebadoh - name your history-conscious '90s indie band of choice. People born in the '60s, and thrashing in '80s mosh pits, don't seem to really connect with those bands so much?
― Rob, give a listen to Iggy Stooge (morrisp), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:22 (four years ago) link
Every time I succumb to the temptation to say, "X decade sucked!" I ask myself, "What did I miss out on and how was I wrong?"
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:23 (four years ago) link
B-b-but the SST deal was punk rock guys looking back to 60s and 70s rock in the first place.
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:25 (four years ago) link
https://youtu.be/xBKyBlJ_JN8
https://youtu.be/rWH8Xa4zGzA
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:26 (four years ago) link
music peaked in the 80s
the 1780s
― XVI Pedicabo eam (Neanderthal), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:27 (four years ago) link
Anyway, this was the actual peak and people have just been shuffling deck chairs since:
18th century music
xp!
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:28 (four years ago) link
Book 1 of Well-Tempered Clavier was 1720s, though.
― Feel a million filaments (Sund4r), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:30 (four years ago) link
I'm with you on that, but although my understanding of the 80s has deepened over the past 10-15 years, when push comes to shove, I still earnestly feel like the 90s marked a quantum leap forward for almost every single pop-adjacent genre I can think of. 90s hip-hop, r&b, metal and electronic are all ultimately better than their 80s predecessors imo. Old habits…
― pomenitul, Monday, 3 August 2020 23:30 (four years ago) link
In fairness, Scott Miller's point was perhaps somewhat less nuanced than mine; he's talking about "Cherub Rock" when he writes the above, and he goes on to say:
In the nineties, bands pretty much had a single thought: we want to be the next Nirvana. Bands had the least fear in years that following their hearts and doing straight fuzz-guitar pop-rock was somehow old-fashioned. There were a lot of good songs. Life was simple.
I can't endorse this line of argument!!
― Rob, give a listen to Iggy Stooge (morrisp), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:30 (four years ago) link
Bach wrote "Hell Bent for Leather" iirc
― XVI Pedicabo eam (Neanderthal), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:30 (four years ago) link
It's all gone downhill since Pérotin's Viderunt omnes tbh.
I still earnestly feel like the 90s marked a quantum leap forward for almost every single pop-adjacent genre I can think of. 90s hip-hop, r&b, metal and electronic are all ultimately better than their 80s predecessors imo. Old habits…
Disco and synth pop allowed for a wider range of queer expression in the '80s though.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:32 (four years ago) link
Most definitely true.
― pomenitul, Monday, 3 August 2020 23:33 (four years ago) link
90s hip-hop and metal were really the second wave which broke away from the established limitations but when it comes to metal I worship the 80s like a golden cow
― XVI Pedicabo eam (Neanderthal), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:35 (four years ago) link
Celtic Frost, Slayer, Iron Maiden, Possessed, Mercyful Fate, Bathory, early Death, Bolt Thrower, Candlemass, etc.… all of them rule but what came after is one another level imo.
― pomenitul, Monday, 3 August 2020 23:38 (four years ago) link
(I am aware that this is a patently ridiculous argument. I'm curious to hear from fellow millennials (ugh) who prefer the 80s or who think they're on par with the 90s.)
― pomenitul, Monday, 3 August 2020 23:39 (four years ago) link
I think I would rather go clubbing in the 80s
― rumpy riser (ogmor), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:48 (four years ago) link
You could fuck a guy and die!
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:49 (four years ago) link
sad lol
― pomenitul, Monday, 3 August 2020 23:51 (four years ago) link
I'll concede it was a golden age for rap and r&b, but in the case of the former the most innovative shit (Native Tongues, Nas, Main Source, Hieroglyphics, Hit Squad, etc etc etc) all took place in the first half of the decade, with many carrying over from the 80s (PE, BDP, Ultramagnetic MCs). After 94 or 95, my prevailing memory of the decade is Puffy and Faith Evans
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 August 2020 23:52 (four years ago) link
― Boring, Maryland, Monday, 3 August 2020 23:52 (four years ago) link
I think we shouldn't think of "innovative" as a yardstick imo, especially since it's an adjective most often applied retroactively.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:52 (four years ago) link
and how were Missy Elliott, Blige, Aaliyah, etc NOT innovative? As outgrowths of rap-influenced R&B, they sounded like nothing before the Teddy Riley productions of the late eighties.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 3 August 2020 23:53 (four years ago) link