rolling #metoo thread for sexual harassment in the music industry so no one misses out when artists we don't give a fuck about like Tim Westwood and Bassnectar get caught

Honestly I think that what hypothetical people might have done is an irrelevance, I'm sure there are many many professional musicians who haven't ever been sexual predators

i was just watching Last Dance the last few days and Michael Jordan was talking about his early experiences with the Bulls and said he walked into a hotel room and "there was cocaine over here, weed over there, and girls over there"

in this scenario and so many others like it, "girls" are not people, they are a category of treat. "girls" is often given as the reason xyz person started playing in a band in the first place. usually, it's "a joke" but is it? until this mentality changes, and tbh it has not, "girls" will not be considered "people". they are (we are) treats :(

usually, it's "a joke" but is it?

I don't think it's usually a joke tbh!

that's what people say if you call them out on it
it's what they always say! get a sense of humor! lighten up!

La Lechera otm

"girls" is often given as the reason xyz person started playing in a band in the first place. usually, it's "a joke" but is it? until this mentality changes, and tbh it has not, "girls" will not be considered "people"

this is a big part of why I'm never not suspicious of groupie culture as a whole despite some groupies and ex-groupies reporting positive or at least not-negative experiences. I would strongly recommend no-fucking-the-fans as a generally accepted norm/standard and then take, idk, 100 years or so to sort these issues out more effectively first

it's complicated ... because there are non-negative experiences, and there is sometimes a sense of conquest on the part of "the girls" like, "I hooked up with [famous musician]. Let me tell you about his dick." ... It's an extension of getting an autograph or a photo with the person in question, in some cases. ... And, by no means is this meant as a defense of abuse of power or defense of predators. Just that there are different dynamics at play. The "pay (with your vagina) to play" dynamic is gross and I have personally watched it play out with people I know.

As in, the musician/fan relationship is a bit different than the musician/person in a lower-status professional position in the entertainment industry.

idk I am sure part of my thinking about this stuff is the fact I am middle-aged and spent a long time just accepting that "this is the way things are" and making peace with the fact that "woman musician x" stopped getting gigs around the time she stopped letting "male musician y" abuse her, and relatedly, it's an open secret that "male musician y" is a bad drunk and has been sexually abusive to women while drunk for decades, but because he is a "pillar of the scene" with famous friends, no one calls him out and bans him from things.

^^ these are two different "male musician y"s fyi

I will allow it is definitely a little more complicated than my blanket suspicion implies

Sex can be fun and exciting! Sometimes sex is fun and exciting at the time (... sometimes this is because you are drunk and/or high) and then you regret it. ... Or you have trauma that makes it such that you are prone to making unhealthy decisions re sexual behavior ... or it can have a mixture of positive and negative consequences. I feel like we should all know this as adults? And then the question is, going from these presumptions, what's the best community response?

I agree that sex is sometimes acceptable. However (MUCH of the time, I know there are a lot of variations here) we're talking about young women who are poorer, often intoxicated, and hold the musician/artist on a pedestal. For a whole lot of reasons that seems destined to more frequently *not only* result in bad outcomes, but also, afterwards, in situations where the women in question will feel compelled to keep quiet about it. (Even moreso than "normal")

I don't want to diminish that there are lots and lots of variations, but if I was in a touring band I would probably insist on handling it like My Chemical Romance apparently did: play board games in the fucking tour bus and keep it in your pants.

it takes a lot of touring before you can even afford a bus, Simon ...

lol, well I mean admittedly when I think of the worst excesses of this nature I am generally thinking of bigger / more successful bands. (also I keep thinking about the Killers story which is definitely an influence). this is not to say that piddly shit indie dudes are any more virtuous cause they're obviously not, biggest acts just have a wider array of potential enablers

the people getting called out now are the smaller fries ... in some ways that gets more fraught because the relationships are more complicated.

I agree that sex is sometimes acceptable.

"I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS YOUR HONOR"

Thankfully, it appears that horrible Killers story may have actually reflected a joke or “hazing” incident (and the person who reported the incident seems to accept this conclusion).

thanks for sharing that, I only saw the lawyers' statement and it was....very lawyerly

Yeah, it’s written in a way that makes you want to instinctively distrust it (but the details seem thorough).

https://blavity.com/philly-singer-jaguar-wright-says-she-was-sexually-assaulted-by-common?category1=music&category2=news&item=2

wow. that's. . .upsetting.

'Colbert' fires music booker after Tashaki Miyaki singer accuses him of misconduct at CMJ 2010 https://t.co/jvccKIK8cf pic.twitter.com/HXRA3Uzu8m

— Stereogum (@stereogum) August 5, 2020

Kweli has been accused of misconduct before (by Res) and has been acting a whole fool late, running an extended harassment campaign against a Black woman on twitter

Kweli has gone nuts

is the colbert booker related to legendary former mayor of Providence, RI?

I thought he was related to the senator from New Jersey.

is the colbert booker related to legendary former mayor of Providence, RI?

― sarahell, Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:44 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I don't think he's related to Ben McOsker

Buddy Cianci ??

I admit that was also my first thought when I saw his name.

wasn't the story that he stubbed out his cigar on the body of a dude his wife was fucking? ...

Attacked him with a fireplace poker, IIRC

(Or maybe I’m mixing up two different stories? R.I.P., Buddy)

Btw, here’s another case from today’s news: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2020-08-05/takeoff-migos-accused-sexual-assault

Another for today: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-05/grammy-winning-producer-faces-15-sexual-assault-charges

Mark Kozelek:

https://pitchfork.com/news/mark-kozelek-of-sun-kil-moon-accused-of-sexual-misconduct-by-three-women

yeah, bumped the koz thread for that. not to diminish anything but it just seemed like a matter of time with him, tbh

the laura snapes incident was a fairly clear advance warning

not to diminish anything but it just seemed like a matter of time with him, tbh

― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, August 13, 2020 8:43 AM

i'm glad this occurred to someone else too. the guy has always given me the most uncomfortable vibe.

really if you were any sort of rhp/skm fan at all just knowing the whole history with katy was enough to conclude that mark kozelek is a bad person, so like, i'm also not surprised, but incidentally i hate being not surprised about this shit

also the details were worse than i had anticipated

well yeah. i'm the worst kind of cynic: simultaneously not surprised, but disappointed all the same.

enh, "disappointed" feels like the wrong word there.

upset, angry, disgusted. . . yes, those all work too.

I didn't/don't know the Katy story tbh

I stand in total solidarity with these brave women. Grateful to Pitchfork for dedicating resources to this. Shame on everyone who let him creep back into their coverage or enabled him professionally in the past five years. Hope it was worth it https://t.co/sdQr3EryC9

— Laura Snapes (@laurasnapes) August 13, 2020

Nice choice of picture there.

I didn't/don't know the Katy story tbh

― unpaid intern at the darvo institute (Simon H.), Thursday, August 13, 2020 9:07 AM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's not something i can provide a narrative with concrete details about, but i remember learning years ago that the relationship mark kozelek had with katy (of "katy's song," who he described as his "muse," and who he later memorialized in "lost verses" after she died of cancer) was pretty fucked up

right, the gory details probably don't need to go itt but I can't imagine being koz's "muse" was any kind of picnic

I thought it was well-established that Kozelek is an ass.