kanye west

he's always been a semi-clumsy rapper, though the lyrics didn't begin to get real cringe until much later.

People with no actual interest in rap music felt the need to profess strong positive emotions about his nonsense too

I too think Kanye's collapsed in all sorts of ways since 2008, but when I read disses of his "rapping" I automatically think, "What's the rap equivalent of Steve Vai or Neil Schon? You want that?" In fact, we've gotten that style on a few of Andre 3000's guest verses in the last few years: accelerated mush-mouth that's technically unassailable but to my ears dead.

Like, what the fuck kind of rapping do you want? This is like reading Leonard Cohen and Bernard Sumner are poor singers. That's not an opinion -- that's a fact. But what did they do within their limitations? They wouldn't be good to great without those limitations, I'd say.

Kanye at his best between 2003-2008 let his conversational drawl and cadences become part of the sumptuousness of his productions. I'll admit I'm an auteurist about him: when he started crediting co-producers he lost a sense of how he could give himself star entrances. Do we expect stars to "act"? No. We expect them to project the best versions of themselves, which, like Garbo and Harrison Ford taught us, is a kind of acting too.

So y'all stfu about Kanye's rapping prowess.

NB: I don't give a good goddamn about Kanye since My Boring Conventional Fantasies.

A respectable opinion that I happen not to share. I would make the exact same case if someone were dissing the RZA’s flow, which I fucking love for some reason.

xp

I think using Andre 3k as your example of rap Steve Vai is ridiculous

he's more of a rap Dave Mustaine

The point of being a star, in part, is no one sounds like you. RZA's bit in "Snakes"? Ghostface, Raekwon, ODB -- no one could've pulled it off.

I think using Andre 3k as your example of rap Steve Vai is ridiculous

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown)

Honey, I'm a star. I'm supposed to be ridiculous.

is Canibus the rap steve vai

bad rapping is worse than bad singing imo. tho of course a lot of the most satisfying rap isn't very technical or complex. I just kind of hate kanye's voice a little bit too which is a barrier for me and is probably the main thing that I judge rappers on. underrated lyricist though imo

Anyway, Steve Vai is awesome on David Lee Roth and PiL tracks.

while i disagree with his analogies i think alfred's pretty otm about kanye's rapping

sometimes i love his verses because they're terrible cf. "knock you down"

He can do it all, fast, slow, so fluid, such great and memorable phrasing, lyricism, storytelling indelible lines...top 10 of all time, a total MC in every sense of the word

and Kanye?

I agree with the point, Kanye is effective and certainly many many memorable verses and lines. He works well with what he can do in the flow of his music*

*Until more recently

Who else could've rapped so well about this domestic scenario -- maybe Talib and Mos Def in 1998-1999? But Kanye's awkwardness works in his favor: like a singer on an Italo disco or house track, the anonymity underscores the pathos.

Also, he sounds sexy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwAjANmjajc

I guess there's use if ghostwriting discussion to be had wrt Kanye as MC but I guess it doesn't bother me, he's a producer and putting together the total package

You wanna see heads blow up? When students ask me about ghost writing and I say who gives a shit.

Maybe the people actually writing the songs? Especially when someone becomes a multi millionaire celebrity with the social capital to run for president of the US off of the fame and money generated from performing those songs, while the people who did actually write them don't earn even a remote fraction of that fame and financial success themselves? Not that Kanye is or is typically perceived as anywhere the biggest offender of using ghostwriten music (I think that honor has been Drake's for a while)... but asking "who cares" about it seems pretty stupid.

I'm reading an E.M. Forster essay about Proust (don't ask). I found this sentence:

"His despair is fundamental. It is not a theory in him, but an assumption, so that the wreckage of his creation evolves as naturally as the music of the spheres."

xp. you get good money for participating in the production of these albums

I mean Big Sean, Pusha and Cyhi the Prince aren't still on GOOD Music because they make tons of money as solo artists

in particular some lines really stick out as Pusha

I'm sure they are more than fine with it

also, not all ghostwriters are like, Gillie, Jay-Z, Eminem, Pharoah Monche, etc all ghostwrote for other people, theyre not starving

should have been a period after Gillie.

asking "who cares" about it seems pretty stupid.

darling, I've had lots of practice reading you the last few months

Re: Forster, that’s some high-grade bullshit right there. Describing Proust’s ‘despair’ as ‘fundamental’ is quite the projection.

the starving ghostwriters aren't writing for like Kanye, they're writing for like, some dude who is in the 9 pm slot as the local opener for Run the Jewels

Re: Forster, that’s some high-grade bullshit right there. Describing Proust’s ‘despair’ as ‘fundamental’ is quite the projection.

― pomenitul, Thursday, July 23, 2020

Yeah. I blame Forster's ghost writers.

anyway, I cited the line b/c it's clearer now that for Kanye despair is fundamental, and there's a lot to despair over.

xp. But not every ghostwriter is a Jay-Z, Frank Ocean, etc. level celebrity right? Those guys ain't starving but it's not the same situation for someone who isn't already an established name like that. You get good money SOMETIMES for participating in the production of these works as a ghostwriter, but again; the fact that your name is never directly associated with the work, while as "a single by the artist Kanye West" it goes on to sell tens or hundreds of millions and earn massive levels of worldwide attention and acclaim... the name/brand recognition from that will almost always more significant than whatever meager royalty you were paid to not have your name on it. And again, that's IF you're compensated at all; even an artist as "big" as Aphex Twin almost didn't receive anything when Ye sampled Avril 14th on MBDTF. "Ghostwriting" wouldn't really even be a stigma if the writer in that situation was always being truly appropriately compensated for their involvement in the work IMO. Again, not to derail or scapegoat Kanye as some specific abusive tyrant of an army of ghostwritten raps or anything.

pretty sure the producer who spent a mill to sample 21st Century Schizoid Man isn't paying $50 for "MC Scoliosis" to write his rhymes

I never said that he did, although recent stuff like Poopity scoop does makes me wonder what he does hypothetically pay whoever writes his rhymes now

considering some of the guests on KTSE went unpaid until recently it's possible they did it for nothing. (ime the uber wealthy are always the cheapest motherfuckers alive)

Imagine being the ghostwriter tasked with coming up with "Lift Yourself"

"it's never going to get out that I wrote this, right?"

"This is a good start, but at this part I was thinking we could say 'scoop-dee-WHOOP' instead of 'scoop-dee-POOP', switch it up a little on 'em you know?"

lol

p sure I unequivocally love Lift Yourself, had never heard it till last night

btw richard james is credited on 'blame game,' he's definitely gotten paid

xp to trevor phillips' nonsense

ftr the good songs on Yeezus still bang like fuck, which makes the bad songs that much more disappointing to me

of course I'd forgotten about "I'd rather be a dick than a swallower" when I typed that, yeesh

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/aug/26/aphex-twin-kanye-west-avril-14th-sample-blame-game

xp Yea, and he apparently had to fight for that credit. This was old news and also not the first time a story or claim like this had been made about Kanye. Fuck off

I remember this with Syl Johnson

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kanye-west-and-jay-z-settle-syl-johnson-lawsuit-91675/

Jay-Z and Kanye West have settled a federal lawsuit by soul singer Syl Johnson, who claimed that the duo used an unauthorized sample of his song “Different Strokes” on “The Joy,” a track on the deluxe version of their album Watch the Throne.

According to Johnson, West had attempted to clear the sample for his 2010 record My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, but could not get the deal ready in time for its release and ended up putting the track on Throne without his permission, proper credit or payment. The details of West and Jay-Z’s settlement with Johnson have not been made public, though legal papers filed in Illinois last week indicate that the suit has been dismissed.

he didn't get the King Crimson sample approved til after the fact either fwiw

Sampling first and clearing later is so common though (not that it's admirable or anything). Also I'm sure this is something he leaves up to his legal team, it's not like he's calling up RDJ or Robert Fripp (although it's probably impossible to clear samples when the record is released two hours after getting mastered).

the rdj story a bit more damning than "he didn't have time to clear his sample before dropping the record." to be fair to kanye, he's been very exhaustive about crediting co-writers, producers, and sample sources from yeezus on. the lists of credited writers are looooong.

it's not like he's calling up RDJ or Robert Fripp

Apparently, there literally was a West-Fripp phone call, as related in this Rolling Stone story:

Kanye West even prominently sampled “21st Century Schizoid Man” for 2010’s “Power.” Fripp relates the story about how he called West personally to iron out a last-minute sample clearance before a BET performance. “What I said to Kanye was, ‘I’ll make it happen,'” Fripp says, pronouncing the rapper’s name “can-yee.” “‘Cause here was an artist who effectively had been fucked over by his record company, who was just about to do a live broadcast on major TV and he didn’t know whether he could do the piece he was rehearsing or not.”

kanye's sample sources are vanilla as fuck and always have been. almost as "good" as his rapping.

everything he does is a contrived move to start "DISCOURSE." the music matters later, but what can be said "about" it right now?

i mean, just look at his very first single: 'through the wire' wasn't just an effort at making a good song. the song itself was about how the song was made. it's a type of faux "genuine, earnest" presentation that lacks any sort of substance. i just can't believe people continue to fall for it.