delia gonzalez & gavin russom - the days of mars

to me black meteoric star sounds like reggae but that might be b/c i listen to textures, not beats

to me black meteoric star sounds like reggae but that might be b/c i listen to textures, not beats am hella stoned right now

wtf is 'wub'

wub = love, i think

seriously though interesting kate brings up the koner experiment, i was just thinking about listening to that last night (listened to phenomena 256 instead, which sounds nothing like dance music to me, except maybe a completely amorphous, beatless version of lindstrom and prins thomas)

like if you dissolved L&PT II in a vat of bubbling acid it might sound like phenomena 256

i think it would probably sound like this:

"pssssssssss"

it would sound like "assssssssssssspie"

been trying to figure out the wub thing also. i don' think it means 'love'

wub is the mating call of the Caspa.

The textures sound nothing like reggae. Reggae is much more about heavy reverb and slap echo and analogue delay. This is about phase and oscillation.

Wub is... there's a technical term for it that my former keyboard player used to use (she used to get it really nicely from an MS-10) but I always just use wub coz it's onomatopoeic. It's a kind of fast oscillation that gives the same feeling as a tremolo, but with frequency oscillation, rather than volume. It's all over that MBS record, all over Forever Alien, but also in a lot of 80s synth pop and the Kraftwerk-ish end of krautrock.

Have you all been on ILX for this long and not realised that people can actually listen to different aspects of music, and find different aspects of the same thing appealing? I mean, maybe it's because I've been a musician for so long, that I tend to deconstruct the individual sound that make up things. You can take that sound and stick a drum machine under it, and it's "italo" or whatever, take that sound and put a motorik beat under it, and it's krautrock, or just leave the beats off and it's drone. It's the synths I'm listening to, not the arrangement.

I'm listening to Where You Go I Go Too right now, and this sounds almost identical to Reich's Music For 18 Musicians with bits of disco guitar and stuff drizzled over the top. Music For 18 Musicians is almost pure drone - without the rock. But I think you're letting the "rock" part of the phrase mislead you.

obviously we all find different aspects of things appealing, but there is so much more going on than the 'drone' aspect of things that it's worth noting. it's interesting that you have contextualized it as such but i don't agree at all, esp when you make claims that things are '100% pure unfiltered drone/dronerock' etc.

when i think of 'pure' drone i think of stuff like eliane radigue and lamonte young, so you're reallllllly losing me when you claim that 'music for 18 musicians' is 'almost pure drone'

also i am def not a musician at all

I just clearly don't have as rigid definitions of genre as you do. ::shrugs:: I'm not going to fight about it.

I can hear elements of one style of music, inside a piece of music written in another style, because I can separate out what different instruments are doing a lot more clearly than a non-musician, I suspect.

i think the american beauty soundtrack sounds more like music for 18 musicians than 'where you go i go too' does

black meteor star sounds like dirty-ass legowelt to me which is obviously a very good thing. comparisons to drone or dronerock or whatever is completely wacky, "the days of mars" i can see though

Where You Go I Go Too has a synth line from Supernature and sounds like Giorgio Moroder. Not really sure why anyone would call it "dronerock", whatever that is meant to signify, instead of disco.

I can hear elements of one style of music, inside a piece of music written in another style, because I can separate out what different instruments are doing a lot more clearly than a non-musician, I suspect.

― Violent In Design (Masonic Boom), Monday, June 29, 2009 3:05 PM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ehhzu7.gif

i can definitely see why someone would say BSM has more in common with dronerock than disco or house. i don't think it really has as much to do with being a musician as with how you like to contextualize what you listen to.

if we're talking dronerock = harmonia and stuff like that, ok

that's how i interpreted it

to me dronerock = les rallizes denudes, VUs, tony conrad + faust, etc.

but i do have such rigid definitions after all

more sweet sweet dronerock here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9aVCRIau6s

is this drone(rock)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQl4IiljvMI

cause to me it sounds like loop or something with a 4/4 beat

are those supposed to sound like BSM?

BMS*

I think BMS sounds far closer to the "Adonai Elohim" than Harmonia but I'm being an ass so I'll stop.

need to hear this record so I can have a contrarian opinion about it

i still think it sounds more like acid house than dronerock, but i was just sayin i can see where she was comin from.

I think my issue whenever Kate starts talking about dronerock in relation to dance music is that the elements she's referring to are common to vast swathes of techno. Perhaps some of the current crop of producers wear their dronerock/Krautrock influences on their sleeves more, but there's always been, if not cross-pollination, then a shared or similar approach to music, partly because they have some of their roots in the same places. I think one reason why saying "this is just dronerock" rubs people up the wrong way is because it isn't giving enough credit to techno.

All the Black Meteoric Star stuff I've heard sounds fantastic by the way. Sound is huge, would love to see it live.

I mean, we're talking about two genres that are built on texture, repetition and build. Of course they're going to have elements in common because the artists in question are adopting similar processes, albeit with different gear and instrumentation.

I ordered the BMS album tonight based almost entirely on the praise in this thread. It had better be good... (Honestly though, I do really like the Delia/Gavin stuff from the past few years so not too worried.)

Another reason people might be getting rubbed the wrong way is that it sounds like dronerock is being used to (rhetorically) legitimatize techno/house/minimalism etc. (it just sounds like that, whether that's what's being said, I can't and won't say. I'm getting is "what's drone rock is good, and what's good is drone rock" and while you can hear anything in anything if you want, that logic loses a lot of meaning without boundaries of what drone rock is to begin with. It's also kind of selective, too, I hear Jeff mills as much as Neu in Music for 18 Musicians for instance.

And people may not agree with me here either, but drone rock or drone rockness isn't an inherently good thing, either.

Matt DC and EDB OTM; you put into words the thoughts my asshole brain is incapable of expressing.

if we're talking dronerock = harmonia and stuff like that, ok

― winston, Monday, 29 June 2009 20:33 (Yesterday) Bookmark

Yes. Michael Rother / the less meandering end of Cluster is exactly what I'm thinking of. It's no accident that I saw Cluster and James Holden playing a show together a few months ago.

I mean, we're talking about two genres that are built on texture, repetition and build.

Yes, this is what I'm saying. Exactly.

Of course they're going to have elements in common because the artists in question are adopting similar processes, albeit with different gear and instrumentation.

I'm not so sure about the different gear and instrumentation any more. It's not as if Dronebobbins (to coin a phrase, to avoid the rockist connotations of "dronerock" because I include a lot of krauty stuff, spacey stuff, dronepop in the larger genre of "drone" as well as your pure LaMonte Young/Terry Reilly stuff) avoids the use of synthesisers, sequencers, programming, etc. The only real difference is in the drumming/beats - that dronebobbins tend to stick to motorik/rock-based 4/4 straight rhythms while the dance stuff will stick on disco rhythms and house rhythms with more synchopation (or not - as I've discovered.)

I'm certainly not intending to "priviledge" dronerock over techno or anything - it's just that most of my musical experience is in other areas. I've been learning about "dance" or "club" music (whatever the hell that means, these terms seem so clumbsy - as if you can't dance to The Sonics!) - but as it's not my primary experience of music, I often need to find a way *in* to this kind of thing. And my easiest way in to it is through the repetative/drone/textural element. I'm not trying to "legitimise" anything. I'm just finding mine own way into a kind of music that I don't have the cultural or other reference points for.

I often feel like people on these threads are saying to me "because you come from a rock/pop background, you don't have a *right* to have an opinion on this music" which really rubs *me* the wrong way.

Listening to this now. To my non-trained ear I can hear a lot more (say) Basic Channel than (say) Faust, although there is definitely a krautrock thing going on. It's definitely a techno record though, were one forced to assign it to a single genre.

personally, "drone" to me has always constituted a distinct lack of motorik style rhythms or anything of the Steve Reich variety. If there are rhythms, they're of the microtonal type, or the big it takes minutes to get around each beat type. Drone as more specifically, the Theater of Eternal Music style, not like a rock band or dance producers plodding on and on. Something like Music for 18 Musicians may have subtle movements, but it's so detailed and frenetic that it has an excitement that is very un-dronelike. I guess the very definition of drone is of sustained notes, where motorik, acid house, etc are definined by rhythms and patterns.

I mean, we're talking about two genres that are built on texture, repetition and build.

Although you realize this could mean practically anything.

I think what I mean to say, though, is that drone is not the beginning or end of the story, but a small piece amid it. I'm wouldn't criticize anyone for accessing other forms of music through it, but but think of it as the gateway not the goal (and it might be limiting to comprehend things as structured so by a particular framework too, perhaps).

Never mind, I've learned my lesson. I'm never going to praise anything I like, on ILM, ever again for fear I might get the genre wrong and be told my reasons for liking it are totally illegitimate.

i believe we've been quite unfair to kate here - she's obviously using "drone" the way some people use the word "funk"; i.e. a record doesn't have to be a scratchy 45 with a brass section for someone to say "this is pure funk".

^^^^^^^^ yes. OTM. See also how some people use the phrase "soul".

"drone", "wub" - all these things are just my way of saying "this record brings the goodness"

i think we're being pretty reasonable actually. nobody is denying anyone their opinion here, simply stating their own.

i think it's interesting that some of you think of BMS as drone, but i don't need to agree! i started this whole thing by saying that her description was misleading, not rong or 'bad' or anything. people are allowed to disagree, yeh?

so I guess I'm the only one who likes Days of Mars better than the BMS record then? (of course when it comes to that record I am very much the demented governess who believes the baby is her own; it's probably my favorite record of the decade.)

oh i much prefer Days of Mars. this doesn't do much for me.

I prefer Days... as well (one of my fave records of the last 5 years), but I like the BMS record too...

i also prefer Days of Mars. i like the BMS and would love to see it live, but i doubt i'll come back to it nearly as much as Days of Mars.

i think it's too early to tell if i'll like this one more. i've always liked 'days of mars' but it continues to grow on each time i pull it out, and i could see the same thing happening with black meteoric star