Stevie Wonder's Worst Song: A Poll -- "I Just Called To Say I Love You" vs. "Ebony and Ivory"

Voted for I Just Called To Say I Love You, chiefly on the strength of that horrible little parp-parp-parp Casio keyboard bit at the very end. They're both appalling tracks though.

― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Friday, 15 May 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Have an affection for it as a one of a kind ending.

E-flat and A-flat are my favorite keys to sing in too, they’re the most comfortable for me

a lot of guitar players avoid E Flat cos guitarists hate playing that chord without a capo

but I lik that key

*like

Isn't the entire first Van Halen album more or less in E flat? Maybe almost every song on the first two Suede albums, too, iirc. And "Boys of Summer," I think.

well yeah cos they tuned down a half step

every Metallica album since and including Load too

and every Slayer album other than Show No Mercy

Yeah, lots of stuff tuned down a half step, iirc.

Hendrix, Weezer ... you know, all the greats.

I always assume anytime I hear guitar in songs in E-flat that the guitar isn't using standard tuning, has a capo, or the whole thing is lowered or raised a half pitch after being recorded. I'm not much of a guitarist though so not sure if this is always the case.

I find (in my limited experience) that when something is altered after recording the guitar tends to be in some impossible in-between tuning, like every song on "Highway to Hell," for example. But Hendrix, SRV, Suede, Weezer, Nirvana, GNR, a bunch of metal stuff, it's tuned down half a step on purpose, I think.

Makes it heavier. Sabbath downtuned. As did the Velvet Underground, strangely enough.

Lots of guitarists tune down, for all sorts of reasons.

obv gets done at the desk/control room too, eg “when the levee breaks”

Can you expand on this, because I find it really interesting! The interval relationships remain the same, so what particularly makes you prefer those keys? The absolute frequencies of the notes?

I am not a vocal pedagogue so take this with a grain of salt and confirm with someone who actually teaches the mechanics of vocal production but it seems to have something to do with where certain notes land on my vocal chords. As you say, the intervals are the same, but the most "natural" key for me to sing in seems to be E-flat; that requires the least amount of work/feels the most comfortable. You could almost say that I feel like my voice is "tuned" to that key; I don't know if it's due to the physical structure of my esophagus/vocal cords or even if it's specifically transferable to other people (although I notice a lot of bass/baritone rep is in E-flat, which may also be attributable to usable vocal range). When you start working in related keys via the circle of fifths, the closest ones to E-flat are B-flat (up a fifth) and A-flat (down a fourth); there's a lot of note overlap between those keys and it feels easier to produce/stay in key when I'm in those keys.

I am looking at this thread almost as angrily as I look at the political threads

― DJP

So I should just quash that impulse to post the Eddie Murphy / Joe Piscopo SNL sketch about Ebony and Ivory? Because ever since i saw that skit when I was like 12, I've never been able to hear the song the same again (but I would guess it hasn't aged well).

From a UK POV it just makes me thing about the Alexei Sayle rant about a "song about racial harmony ON PIANOS"

It's the only metaphor that can be played. That and the world's tiniest violin, I guess.

So I should just quash that impulse to post the Eddie Murphy / Joe Piscopo SNL sketch about Ebony and Ivory?

oh no, that shit was hilarious; post and be merry

(from memory)

"You're blind as a bat and I have sight ... "

Jazz guitarists around the world play in flat keys without retuning ftr.

Also "I Just Called" is the reason I never looked into Stevie Wonder's catalogue for far too long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h2jZtuRuic&t=182s

Let's try that again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h2jZtuRuic

Jazz guitarists around the world play in flat keys without retuning ftr.

Jazz guitarists know how to play their instruments. #snap #nohedidnt

Just having IJCTSILY stuck in my head coats my brain with karaoke-cooked star wipes after each line.

Which reminds me, I could have sworn the original video to this featured wild shit like a giant chocolate candy bar floating through the blue sky like a Millennium Falcon, but after going through so many videos this weekend (which is why the song is still stuck in my head,) I couldn't find anything like that.

So maybe it was just me.

That is absolutely a thing in one version of the video. At the time DJ/TV presenter Noel Edmonds refered to it as "a flying piece of toast".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEYo6_ysxX4

Oh, similarly, was there a version of Whitney Houston's "How Will I Know" video where splashes of neon paint were superimposed over the video? Coulda sworn that was also a thing.

The advent of the MTV era must have been tough to navigate any of the 70's old guard, but especially so if you were blind.
a lot of trust involved there.

What's Billy Squier's or Rod Stewart's excuse?

That's it, snoball! Don't know why I couldn't find that.

It's more of a Dune effect than Star Wars though.

"it seems to have something to do with where certain notes land on my vocal chords"
I haven't heard this before, but it's interesting that human vocal chords might actually just have a natural resting placement that aligns with the half step downtune.

I figured tuning half-step lower is win-win for when you're looking to make the guitars and bass subtly fuller, darker, meatier, without having to change a whole lot. And as a extra bonus everything is easier to sing a half-step lower because you don't have to reach as high up. I'm pretty sure Poison and Motley Crue have also done this a bunch. But the natural vocal chord alignment makes a lot of sense -- probably something easier to figure out with some coaching.

I played in a band that insisted on tuning down a half-step. They were good songs, and it definitely made it easier to sing, but I dunno. To my ears, it really did sound like we were half a step behind everything else.

Hm, I don't think classical vocal repertoire is predominantly in flat keys, is it? I would expect that to be the case if those keys were inherently easier to sing in? They tend to be good for horn players aiui so a lot of jazz repertoire is in flat keys.

Both songs are terrible.
Ultimately I went with "Ebony and Ivory."
"I Just Called to say I Love You" is Steve's cross to bear.
Whereas "Ebony and Ivory" was terrible and also had a Beatle.
That makes it twice as terrible.
It's simple math.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Hm, I don't think classical vocal repertoire is predominantly in flat keys, is it? I would expect that to be the case if those keys were inherently easier to sing in? They tend to be good for horn players aiui so a lot of jazz repertoire is in flat keys.

Composers don’t necessarily compose for ease of singing and a lot of is probably tied more to vocal range than inherent tuning; for example, I have the low edition of Burleigh’s spiritual book and, out of 48 songs, 32 are in flat keys with the most prevalent being F, E-flat, A-flat, and D-flat (Gm has good representation as well).

I described this in terms of how it feels to me rather than in terms of “this is how the voice works” intentionally

The lyric is obviously a mawkish attempt to tackle a very serious and complex issue, but - and it's probably just nostalgia playing a game with me here - I absolutely love the melody and arrangement of E&I. I cannot defend it. It's almost certainly objectively bad. But I guess that's the way love is.

IJCTSILY has swell verses, but my main feeling about it whenever I think about it is remembering how my mum would get very excited by the vocoder vocal section, and the relish with which she'd explain to me that this singing was done with a synthesiser!

aw come on, I Just Called might be a bit drippy but it's tonnes better than Ebony and Ivory which is just mawkish moosh.

Can't fathom why they didn't release What's That You're Doing instead. So funky and fun and way more Stevie and way more Paul. I absolutely love it

that wasn't aimed at any particular poster, just agog about the results

Ebony and Ivory is crappy but it has a certain musical charm for me. I have a visceral hatred for IJCTSILY. It is such a joyless slog, in the way that 'We are the World' is a slog. The lyrics are a sentimental abomination, not as bad as say, 'Always and Forever,' but close. I hope I die before I hear it again.

No way WATW can be slog when so many black performers sing so well on it.

“always and forever”... bad?????

fp'ed and went back in time and SB'ed as well for that

Re: We Are The World - lots of performers sing well on terrible songs, which means nothing to me. There are plenty of great songs to choose from the the same performers. Re: 'Always and Forever" = my most hated song of all time (w/ possible exception of 'Hey Brother' by Avicii).

did u run over cats growing up

LOLZ no I love kitties. BTW I cannot comprehend how Heatwave, who created the glorious and eternal 'Groove Line' and awesome 'Boogie Nights,' 'Mind-Blowing Decisions,' and 'Too Hot To Handle' - just to name a few - could have also shitted out Always and Forever.