Taking Sides: Genesis 1970-1977 Vs. Genesis 1978-91

xpost I like that 1972 clip, because you get to see Pete playing flute, Tony playing guitar and Phil playing a tiny drum set.

xpost \m/

I think, for better or for worse, Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel were both really influenced by soul singers (or maybe equally/specifically white soul singers). That's something that really sets them apart from a lot of prog people, imo.

This is true, but I think the difference between them is thre "soul voice" seems to come more naturally to Collins, where with Gabriel it comes via this awkward posh school theatrical filter. Im just thinking of how both sing Supper's Ready, espceially the closing section, like Pete's all "Hello babe, your supper's waiting for you", and Phil's like, "Hey babe, your supper's waiting for you". Both approaches are fine - the awkwardness is a feature not a bug for Gabriel in the long run, whereas Phil's ease with soul takes us to his Supremes cover (which I think is fine) and the really awful Blues Brothers-style soul medleys on the Invisible Touch tour, which lead me to believe there must have been quite a lot of coke on the Genesis rider during that era.

RE: Banks, the key to his character for me has always been an on-the-road documentary filmed circa Invisible Touch where he's talking about The Brazilian in context of the new album, saying it sounds a lot like his solo stuff and then saying "So if you like that go buy my solo albums." And then he adds sourly, "Which no one ever does, of course."

how well discussed in gabriel lore is the 1977 tour he did with nona hendryx as support act?

i remember it being a critical talking point at the time in uk rock-paper reviews w/o very clearly remembering in what way (likely at least one review said the equivalent of "well NH gets it and PG doesn't" and others said "keep this bad music out of our nice genesis ears" but i honestly don't exactly recall except that i somehow firmly filed it away as a confluence of note)

xpost I feel like the Yes Album would be considered more of a classic if it had Roger Dean artwork

ooh wasn't aware of that but was listening to nona's Art of Defense yesterday and appreciating its hard Talking Heads vibe

She's kind of out there, Nona.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fc0wWy_OTA

The first two Nona Hendryx albums rule; the other eighties albums are cluttered things.

I think Television opened for him on part of that tour, too, or at least the next tour.

television was later in the year -- same tour US leg possibly? first NH alb = 1977, the year in question

i found a couple of reviews of the shows in question on rock's backpages, which don't live up to my billing upthread (at all, lol) -- so maybe it was discussions in interviews (with him or with her) round that time that i'm remembering

I tried to like Nona Hendryx, but she's the unnecessary middle ground between Chrissie Hynde and Grace Jones.

i can't quite identify what flute prog is sampled on juggaknots' "generally" - idk if it's like genesis or pfm or what - i know i've heard it before, can anyone listen and set my mind at ease?

― Kate (rushomancy), Friday, March 27, 2020 1:37 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

I've been reading too much ILX, because my first thought after reading this was "Wait, Insane Clown Posse sampled Gabriel on 'The Knife'? Is that from the 2nd deck of Joker cards?"

what makes it interesting for me is that voice-wise the divide between "am actively drawn to" and "don't really care for" falls exactly between them (as collins sings here). so yes they're alike: but in some key subtle way, also not.

So this turns out to be also true for me, but in reverse. I just find Collins unconvincing and unengaging on prog material, maybe for the reason Alfred said. Once in a while, I try again with A Trick of the Tail and it just never lands.

I've been reading too much ILX, because my first thought after reading this was "Wait, Insane Clown Posse sampled Gabriel on 'The Knife'? Is that from the 2nd deck of Joker cards?"

― Bill Bruford's drumbeat for "South Side of the Sky": proto-dubstep? (Prefecture)

juggaknots weren't icp-related? they were a company flow offshoot

(But good show) xp

have i mentioned my completely baseless crackpot theory that "the knife" was based on the theme song to "the flashing blade"?

Ha! I looked them up and found out that yes, the Juggaknots have literally nothing to do with neither Violent J nor Shaggy 2 Dope. I would have never heard of them if not for this thread - I'll definitely check them out!

As for the actual question at hand, "The Knife" (from 1970's Trespass) is absolutely awesome, the kind of song you would hear during the movie montage scene where the protagonist trains to defeat the foe. The interplay between Banks, Rutherford, and Philips is total fire. So, point for 1970-77.

Counterpoint: "Anything She Does" from 1986's Invisible Touch is one of the best power-pop songs ever, and not just because Phil taught a generation of US kids how Britishers pronounce "garage".

Also a typically unspoken entry in the list of "80s songs about pining for centerfolds" songs.

have i mentioned my completely baseless crackpot theory that "the knife" was based on the theme song to "the flashing blade"?

This was shown in the US?

Pretty sure The Knife was a tribute to / knockoff of The Nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45pIvr4gJD4

It is a truth universally acknowledged that The Nice are infinitely better than ELP.

come on now. Ars Longa Vita Brevis is a fun record and there's some good stuff on their debut (depending on whether or not you like David Jackson's goofy psych pop songs) but The Nice ran out of ideas after 2 LPs plus they had a terrible singer and a drummer whose only mode was straightforward bashing. arguably a more interesting band than ELP though

This was shown in the US?

― Bridge Over Thorley Waters (Tom D.)

not to my knowledge, why?

the nice at their best were just the right amount of ridiculous for me. keith emerson wearing leather trousers stabbing a keyboard > keith emerson in a stadium playing a levitating synthesizer

john peel clearly agreed; his famous quote on ELP came from someone who had the nice on his show what seemed like every fucking week. hell, the nice did his show's theme tune!

not to my knowledge, why?

I thought you were in the US?

keith emerson wearing leather trousers stabbing a keyboard > keith emerson in a stadium playing a levitating synthesizer

HARD AGREE

The bit when Collins breaks into a surf drum break after all the galloping 3/4 when Gabriel sings 'stand up and fight' is so fucking great.

It's not Phil, it's John Mayhew on Trespass.

that 76 video was awesome by the way. young Phil is a lot of fun to watch

I thought you were in the US?

― Bridge Over Thorley Waters (Tom D.)

yes? i don't get what you're saying. a show doesn't have to be broadcast on american television for me to have seen it. i'm broadly familiar with a lot of british-broadcast television of the '60s and '70s

It's not Phil, it's John Mayhew on Trespass

Unless he's talking about the version on Genesis Live, of course.

(xp) I'm saying "The Flashing Blade" is a very obscure TV series for anyone outside of the UK (and France obviously) to be familiar with!

The original French series was apparently broadcast in Canada. Was it good?

it was silly even if you were 7 but it was swashbuckling action and had a memorable themetune with a dubious moral message

Kinda violent for a kids show?

it depicted the olden days, thats ok

Unless he's talking about the version on Genesis Live, of course.

which absolutely fucking rules (and was my second Genesis purchase, at the age of 11 or so, after Invisible Touch. Almost as baffling an experience as when, after falling in love with Sugar's Copper Blue, I decided to check out Bob Mould's old band Husker Du and bought the only album I could find locally, Land Speed Record)

Yeah, the Genesis live version is the one that plays in my head when I think about The Kinfe, I don't think I've listened to Trespass more than a couple of times.

Ah right , never occurred to me

I should listen to the album version to see if Mayhew wrote it like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4HfFwVy-h0&fbclid=IwAR3QAq9Q5mYnVyqJ4zsYzgmwBa8CAkyswyebfvaPItgaLIkaOfmfRf1OpUU&app=desktop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4HfFwVy-h0

Wrestling with the Giant Hogweed in my garden... pic.twitter.com/lZuVbr8xEw

— Steve Hackett (@HackettOfficial) April 6, 2020

Introducing the Genesis Film Festival, a celebration of live footage for you to enjoy at home during lockdown! Over the coming 5 weeks, every Saturday from 8pm BST / 2pm EDT / 11am PDT a new Genesis concert film will be made available to watch on the band’s official YouTube channel for 7 days. First up this week is ‘Three Sides Live’ from 1981! Don’t miss a thing by subscribing to the channel now - http://smarturl.it/YouTubeGenesis

· #GenesisFilmFestival programme ·

Saturday, April 18th · Three Sides Live (1981)
Saturday, April 25th · The Mama Tour (1984)
Saturday, May 2nd · Live At Wembley Stadium (1987)
Saturday, May 9th · The Way We Walk (1992)
Saturday, May 16th · When In Rome (2007)

...or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FBcz3tBH74

I was just listening to "Duke" on a run, and I think, for all the awesome stuff Phil has played on, if someone asked me what makes him a great drummer I think I might suggest listening to "Duke." It's just a great showcase for all his attributes: busy but melodic playing, beat displacement, making tricky time signatures sound accessible, the introduction of the big '80s drum sound (surprised this was pre-Padgham), the light touch with ballads, etc. "Behind the Lines" is just such a triumphant introduction to a new era of Genesis that in retrospect *this* is the album that probably should have been called "And Then There Were Three" (and that album maybe shouldn't really exist, not that it's particularly bad or anything, just clearly transitional).

yeah outside of the single I never remember a thing about that album

Duke is one of the few Genesis albums I don't have on LP, I dunno why since I'm sure I've seen it dozens of times for a buck or two. I just find the cover so unappealing. But it is surprisingly good, I read somewhere that a bunch of the songs were originally intended to be a long suite like Supper's Ready but they wound up getting split up. Still, the album makes more sense to me now

Duke is brilliant. Someone recommend me electronic music that sounds like the first two minutes of Duchess.

really fell in love with Duke this year, picked up a cheap vinyl copy on a whim