should i give the grateful dead a chance?

lol waht

I remember when I first heard Television way back when learning that they got Dead comparisons overseas. But Xgau aside, I'd never heard that comparison here. I guess others made it, too? Or it's possible it was just critical butt sniffing. Anyway, def. weird that any critic would compare Verlaine to Garcia then say he "lacked melodic ideas or any emotional sensibility," which are two hallmarks (imo) of Garcia's playing, like him or not. Verlaine could indeed be cold, though.

Television guitars remind me more of Quicksilver Messenger Service

Yes, that's there too, though QMS are probably even more disappointing to my ears that the Dead.

happy to tweak xgau all kinds of ways but he's not a lazy critic in that particular way. marsh does not get this indulgence from me lol

Marsh is the absolute worst

No, Xgau I can totally believe making the comparison (even if, or especially if, he was being confrontational with it). Marsh I can totally believe fronting.

Wow, just learned about this (remastered versions of their GDR stuff) -- love these albums: https://store.dead.net/grateful-dead-records-collection-digital-box.html

It's also on vinyl, but not CD (sadly)... I would buy if it were :(

After reading an "Altamont" book, I'm pretty confident 99% of the connection between the Angels and Dead was drugs.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, February 20, 2020 7:51 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

the HA seem to have an enduring love of jam bands as they were big supporters of my gf's dad's jam band in the 80s/early 90s in the vancouver area

I never knew about this, but maybe you did?

In the 1980s and 1990s, there was a major expansion of the club into Canada. The Quebec Biker war was a violent turf war that began in 1994 and continued until late 2002 in Montreal. The war began as the Hells Angels in Quebec began to make a push to establish a monopoly on street-level drug sales in the province. A number of drug dealers and crime families resisted and established groups such as the "Alliance to fight the Angels". The war resulted in the bombings of many establishments and murders on both sides. It has claimed more than 150 lives and led to the incarceration of over 100 bikers.

And anyway:

an enduring love of jam bands

Jam bands=drugs=Hells Angels.

truly it is a mystery

I never knew about this, but maybe you did?

In the 1980s and 1990s, there was a major expansion of the club into Canada. The Quebec Biker war was a violent turf war that began in 1994 and continued until late 2002 in Montreal. The war began as the Hells Angels in Quebec began to make a push to establish a monopoly on street-level drug sales in the province. A number of drug dealers and crime families resisted and established groups such as the "Alliance to fight the Angels". The war resulted in the bombings of many establishments and murders on both sides. It has claimed more than 150 lives and led to the incarceration of over 100 bikers.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, February 20, 2020 11:00 AM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

canadian organized crime is very weird. multi-ethnic gangs called like "united nations" and shit allying with, or against the hells angels, to control meth sales or whatever. sketchy as hell

Man would it suck to be in a band and have the Hells Angels into you.

Always worth posting this:

https://www.beatlesbible.com/wp/media/681204_george-harrison-hells-angels-memo-apple-580x386.jpg

The story goes that the UK had sort of a fake HA club, and that George et al. were not prepared for the real deal, and had to hustle to get them out of there.

And speaking of the HA and Canada:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccyu44rsaZo

"straighten out" Czechoslovakia?

the Thompson book is essential imo

The story goes that the UK had sort of a fake HA club, and that George et al. were not prepared for the real deal, and had to hustle to get them out of there.

There's some footage of the UK HA in the 1969 The Stones in the Park movie. Literally just pimply teens in leather jackets and Nazi medals, for the most part.

You make them sound like the Bromley Contingent!

I think there was a bit more to British HA than pimply teens tbf - in fact they're still around and occasionally causing mayhem, though only with each other.

more discussion re the "fake uk hells angels" from upthread: should i give the grateful dead a chance?

(i still basically think the apple incident is overstated, greatly amped up in retrospect to make a funnier story)

we were all pimply teens once! plus the UKHA must have had a start-point when it wasn't very daunting, however hard they later became

Do the UKHA turn up at Cropready? I know it's a big magnet for bikers in general (my sister used to live in Cropready). If so - another Fairport/Dead connec!

xpost Yeah, I had a hunch I posted about it already.

I dunno, I get the impression the Hell's Angels as they are today are nowhere near the bad hombres that they were back then.

really?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hells_Angels_MC_criminal_allegations_and_incidents#United_States

I mean in terms of national menace. I have no doubt that almost every Hell's Angel member is bad news, but their prominence has declined, or at least has been fully absorbed into other bad organizations.

it's a good question, though. Bike gangs used to be go to boogeyman in pop culture, but not so much anymore.

we've had a lot of go-to boogeymen - communists, islamic terrorists, teenage hoodlums, biker gangs, black people, brown people, techbros, hippies

I'm Irish and I like the Dead.

the branch in my city was just a meth trafficking ring fwiw

Here in Berlin the Hells Angels and their rivals the Bandidos are involved in organised crime and kill each other now and again

I never got why people (OK, often Brits) apparently compared (or I guess compare?) Television to the Grateful Dead. While I concede they both have guitars, beyond that I don't hear it.

And the guitar sound isn't really the same. The Feelies, on the other hand, on songs like "Slipping (Into Something)" and "Find a Way," have guitars that are totally Grateful Dead-like--Grateful Dead guitars + Lou Reed vocals.

Heh, if anything I think the Feelies sound even less like the Dead!

yeah I don't hear that at all, the propulsion and krautrock rhythms are so central to the Feelies for one thing

is there an era when propulsion is an actual GD thing?

“Touch of Grey” maybe.

"Alabama Getaway", "Shakedown Street", a lot of the post '77 stuff imo

I think "The Eleven" is reliably propulsive, whenever it appears...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_WpX9s2_rQ

another case of a shit rhythm section not being able to maintain a tempo or a beat, with some pretty good guitar playing being the only standout factor.

it does almost have that Beefheart thing of different band members playing different rhythms against and on top of each other, but none of them seem capable of actually keeping their individual parts together, nor is it as knotty and clangorous

So I listened to "Dark Star" from "Live/Dead" and it started off like Agitation Free or one of those 3rd division Krautrock jam bands I don't like very much. The (tiny) song bit itself was naff then back to the jam. I like Jerry Garcia's playing, but maybe not for 23 minutes straight? I did expect something a bit more transcendental but I suppose it's OK, I prefer when Amon Duul II do it though.

Maybe Garcia is more like Richard Lloyd than Tom Verlaine?

another case of a shit rhythm section not being able to maintain a tempo or a beat

but it's groovy in a very Dead-specific way... I guess either you hear it, or you don't.

lol they even named the song after the time signature, just in case.

Man, imagine if Robert Quine was in the Dead ... Or, like, Sonny Sharrock.

I guess the Dead are not a band I would try very hard to "make a case for," or try to convince anyone to keep trying if they don't connect with it (though, again, that's what happened with me... eventually, it clicked).

Don't know if it's been mentioned upthread, but this is the key document re UK Hell's Angels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng8Ll7x08Vk&feature=youtu.be

It's pretty terrifying stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng8Ll7x08Vk&feature=youtu.be

xxp "Just in case"? Lol. I mean, musicians do that kind of thing, I wouldn't read too much into it.

"Lady if you have to ask you'll never know!!"

Argh, apols. It's a BBC documentary from 1973. Sorry for fucking up the board.

xpost The Dead and Dave Brubeck, maybe. But Genesis? They called the song "Turn It On Again," dammit, not "Thirteen."

“There’s never enough money to cover marijuana, LSD, Grass and acid”

Tell me about it.