i don't know, i guess i don't think i'd want to only consume art by "good" people.
― treeship., Thursday, 13 February 2020 04:03 (four years ago) link
I have heard Steve Harris's political views are pretty far from progressive
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 February 2020 04:04 (four years ago) link
really? :(
― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Thursday, 13 February 2020 04:07 (four years ago) link
With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r) at 12:34 12 Feb 20Ime, a lot of people had no idea what the word "Bengali" meant, even though there's a good chance they had met some around here.--- yeah I mean I will admit, as a cornfed Midwestern rube with latent sadsack indie tendencies, with a very narrow cultural perspective -- as blatantly racist as I understand Bengali in Platforms to be now -- it didn't exactly jump off the page to me then, especially if your frame of reference for "problematic fav being racist" was One in a Million by Guns n Roses or Black Korea by Ice Cubealso it would have never occurred to me that soft/melancholy music could be racist
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 February 2020 04:09 (four years ago) link
xpost yeah it was a rumour I read, something about not wanting his daughter dating outside her race. def not for sure confirmed but...I dunno think about it... dude his age and background.... really into metal and military history, I could see it
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 February 2020 04:11 (four years ago) link
Most of us have beloved artists who did heinous shit and we haven't been able to divorce ourselves from them - Iggy and Bowie, child molesters; domestic assault up and down the line; Tupac, sexual assault; dancehall/reggae homophobia and sexism. Where we're capable of drawing the line ends up being pretty irrational.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 13 February 2020 05:34 (four years ago) link
thanks for someone finally bringing up the Tupac sexual assault. kinda cringed when I saw some people who were bringing up Kobe's rape on the date of his death and saying "nobody should mourn this dude" that are also the "Tupac RIP we miss you" crew. he was convicted, too!
(not that i'm saying the comments about the rape are off limits for Kobe, but have some consistency)
― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Thursday, 13 February 2020 05:40 (four years ago) link
Sounds like you’re posting from Bizarro world w/r/t Kobe. I assume you’re aware that of the repercussions faced by a few (female) journalists who brought up the Kobe rape allegation after his death.
― Mocha Sauce (morrisp), Thursday, 13 February 2020 05:51 (four years ago) link
of course I'm aware of that, I have the internet, it's gross and I hate it. I'm just saying it shouldn't be inherently off limits to say "ok, I know we're sad, but let's not forget this happened". I however have long wondered why people I know that are still rosy about Tupac who turned the sideeye to Kobe when he passed.
― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Thursday, 13 February 2020 05:55 (four years ago) link
not decrying people for not bringing it up at all.
I hear you
― Mocha Sauce (morrisp), Thursday, 13 February 2020 05:57 (four years ago) link
The question this morning (US time) was why he is allegedly more acceptable in the US than UK.
Black people started major efforts to cancel Morrissey in the UK in 1992 and it didn't take until, like, late 2018. His tour in America last year did loads of cut-price tickets because sales were low. Him being booked on one 1980s nostalgia concert in one city doesn't say anything about either country's moral centre.
― Fantastic. Great move. Well done (sic), Thursday, 13 February 2020 07:13 (four years ago) link
this is probably a good place for Morrissey's Green Book theme song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_96bgvIDlM
― symsymsym, Thursday, 13 February 2020 07:36 (four years ago) link
Morrissey's Green Book theme songlmao how am I only learning about this now, perfect
― wee jim o’conor (wins), Thursday, 13 February 2020 07:41 (four years ago) link
and all four smiths albums are important if you care about the development of indie music or even british culture more broadly. this is like canceling shakespeare for being sexist or something
Not important in the development of 'British culture' and not like cancelling Shakepeare.
― High profile Tom D (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 February 2020 07:53 (four years ago) link
fucking hell, haven't read so much maximum wrongness in one sentence on ilm for years.
― calzino, Thursday, 13 February 2020 08:31 (four years ago) link
oh lol just scrolled up to find the perpetrator of that uttermost claptrap and I'm not entirely shocked!
― calzino, Thursday, 13 February 2020 08:36 (four years ago) link
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cd/Morrissey_Autobiography_cover.jpg/220px-Morrissey_Autobiography_cover.jpg
― romanesque architect (pomenitul), Thursday, 13 February 2020 08:48 (four years ago) link
I'd be interested to see which Elizabethan writer it would be like cancelling if you were to give a summary dismissal to other shit British indie-rock bands. Maybe Ned's Atomic Dustbin for C Marlowe? jesus can't even name another Elizabethan writer without going to wiki, but shamefully my mind is like a skip full of the names of shit British indie bands!
― calzino, Thursday, 13 February 2020 09:41 (four years ago) link
I once saw a rousing production of Edward II at sheffield crucible starring Fiennes the younger, that was better than any indie rock shite!
― calzino, Thursday, 13 February 2020 09:45 (four years ago) link
Thinking about this this morning and for me the discussion above isn't so much about Morrissey or the "ethics of cancel cultures" or even the art/artist separation (which christ knows we've done to death) but more the culture clash with a certain group of people who are mainly in the USA, let's call them the Freeze Peach Posse - these are youngish angry men who identify as libertarian and view absolutely everything as an issue of free speech. We have plenty of awful people in the UK, but they seem to be of a different (not better) sort. I mainly know the FPP from their relentless commenting on my US friends Facebook posts, every American I know on there seems to have at least a couple of friends or relatives like this. The presence and tolerance of these people seems to lead to an expectation that artists (particularly white male musicians) are likely to be "free thinkers" who are going to come out with all kinds of outrageous things, but "hey, that's all part of being a rock star, I'm here for the music," etc. But this is bullshit, he is putting out this stuff and feels emboldened to do so, buying a ticket to his show let's him know that you are on-board with this stuff and encourages him to do it more.
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 13 February 2020 09:46 (four years ago) link
Like, you guys who are proud that he wouldn’t headline a festival in the UK anymore… What’s your excuse for 1986 to whenever?― Mocha Sauce (morrisp), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:28 (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Mocha Sauce (morrisp), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:28 (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
i', mot going to link it for like a fourth time, that seems cheeky, but (as a writer who was "there" in 1986) i did actually wrestle with this at some length in my patreon/freaky trigger piece: i think there were institutional reasons it didn't land with permanence in the 80s which go beyond "everyone is as racist as everyone else, get over yrselves" -- a big deal was immediately made of it in the uk music press in 1986
― mark s, Thursday, 13 February 2020 10:07 (four years ago) link
"i', mot" = "i'm not"
i mean my explanation could be wrong! but the effort has been made
― mark s, Thursday, 13 February 2020 10:08 (four years ago) link
Yeah the NME famously covered his Finsbury Park gig with the Union Jack in it critically(92?), and were subsequently proven correct in doubt so.
― hyds (gyac), Thursday, 13 February 2020 10:10 (four years ago) link
that's one of the things I was thinking of re Black people started major efforts to cancel Morrissey in the UK in 1992, as well as Cornershop doing a photo shoot burning pictures of Morrissey and talking about how offensive his lyrics were.
(sub "brown" where appropriate - De1e Fade1e was the NME writer.)
― Fantastic. Great move. Well done (sic), Thursday, 13 February 2020 11:37 (four years ago) link
― mark s, Thursday, February 13, 2020 4:07 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
just want to say that this is a great piece and everyone who's interested enough in this to post in this thread should read it
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 February 2020 14:50 (four years ago) link
I'll link to it again so mark s doesn't have to
https://www.patreon.com/posts/other-jacksons-18720007
― Alba, Thursday, 13 February 2020 16:00 (four years ago) link
Eh...despite Morrissey’s sincere attempts to fuck it up by association since, the Smiths’ rep is still a million miles away from the late 80s/early 90s UK indie herd
― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 13 February 2020 22:50 (four years ago) link
Not quite on a par with Shakespeare though. His sister maybe.
― Load up your rubber wallets (Tom D.), Thursday, 13 February 2020 23:41 (four years ago) link
sounds just as bard as all the other indie shite to me!
― calzino, Thursday, 13 February 2020 23:48 (four years ago) link
The smiths’ best songs rule, come on
― treeship., Friday, 14 February 2020 00:28 (four years ago) link
I went from being a slight Smiths fan over time, to loving them a couple of years ago, to being unable to stomach them anymore when I read Mark's article. I mean fuck Morissey sideways.
― We're jumping on the road with @Nickelback this summer! (PBKR), Friday, 14 February 2020 01:45 (four years ago) link
This was on a past revive, not just now.
― We're jumping on the road with @Nickelback this summer! (PBKR), Friday, 14 February 2020 01:46 (four years ago) link
Marr does a credible job singing the good Smiths song live so you can enjoy them without direct Morrissey stink, at least
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, 14 February 2020 01:53 (four years ago) link
i'll read mark's article
― treeship., Sunday, 16 February 2020 13:00 (four years ago) link
I imagine he never told Mozza that "How Soon Is Now" was inspired by Hamilton Bohannon's "Disco Stomp" either.
― High profile Tom D (Tom D.), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 bookmarkflaglink
Lol, amazing
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 16 February 2020 14:07 (four years ago) link
See this article is doing the rounds on Twitter again
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42050512
― groovypanda, Thursday, 12 March 2020 14:54 (four years ago) link
https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4634-stop-me-if-you-think-you-ve-heard-this-one-before-a-study-in-the-politics-and-aesthetics-of-english-misery
Owen Hatherley on Morrissey as paragon of English boomer miserabilism
― ogmor, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 13:47 (four years ago) link
i've seen a couple of attempts to rehabilitate Morrissey this year. one asks oneself why.
― A rat done bit my sister Nell with Biden on the nom (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 31 March 2020 13:55 (four years ago) link
this is a very good piece
― treeship., Tuesday, 31 March 2020 14:05 (four years ago) link
It's OK, feels like he wasn't entirely convinced by the conclusions he's drawn and crammed them into a little paragraph at the end though.
― Bridge Over Thorley Waters (Tom D.), Tuesday, 31 March 2020 14:09 (four years ago) link
i think he understands the essence of morrissey, i guess borrowed from simon reynnolds, that morrissey is really longing for the "lost limits" of a vanished social order, even as he tries to make it seem like he's railing against them. these are odes to repression. that's why the music is so distinctive, but it also means his ukip sympathies shouldn't be a surprise.
― treeship., Tuesday, 31 March 2020 14:12 (four years ago) link
a lot of people sussed this a long time ago treesh, which is why i think the only thinkpiece worth anything about Morrissey now is "fuck this racist"
― A rat done bit my sister Nell with Biden on the nom (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 31 March 2020 14:14 (four years ago) link
ppl sussed everything thousands of years ago yet here we are
― ogmor, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 14:17 (four years ago) link
lol truth
― A rat done bit my sister Nell with Biden on the nom (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 31 March 2020 14:18 (four years ago) link
A minor quibble maybe, but why did he chose to single out Lulu alongside Joe Meek and Billy Fury 'rather than psychedelia or soul'? Her first hit was a Isley Brothers song! Shouldn't it have been Helen Shapiro or someone?
― Bridge Over Thorley Waters (Tom D.), Tuesday, 31 March 2020 14:20 (four years ago) link
Alma Cogan?
hackney massive reprazent
― mark s, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 14:20 (four years ago) link
let's assume he's limited by the extent of his own record collection
― A rat done bit my sister Nell with Biden on the nom (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 31 March 2020 14:21 (four years ago) link
(alma is whitechapel, helen is hackney)
― mark s, Tuesday, 31 March 2020 14:21 (four years ago) link