pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

Andy Beta and Phil Sherburne are two of the reasons I still occasionally check in.

Perhaps I’ve given the impression I care more than I do. I've long resigned myself to the fact that most of the music I listen to - techno / ambient / drone, some death metal, some jazz - is not really served by Pfork, so I don’t usually make a habit of visiting the site. But I think it's weird to just dismiss jon123's complaints, which to me are valid, even if some of us are tired of flogging this particular horse

Why?

Because once upon a time it provided a refuge from the corporate entertainment it now doggedly promotes?

I do believe that was the point jon123 was making. If I'm mistaken, I apologize.

yes it once upon a time approached the problem in a smug and a dumb way, hence 16000 posts dunking on it

because no one dunks on it now

I don't think it 'promotes' Shakira by talking about the album?

It got 7,6, hardly a rave

xxp

1. "Once upon a time" was a long time ago. (Seriously, P4k started reviewing pop songs in 2003.) The site has evolved, thankfully. And not just about the genres it covers; the criticism is also sharper and more thoughtful, and it's less of a boys club.

2. Writing about an artist != pr2omoting them.

needs to be said--laundry service is a good album. they didn't deliver a fawning retrospective of the j. lo self-titled album for a reason.

People who whine about "corporate music" just because it's corporate music don't actually like music; they like being special and use obscure music to make up for not having a personality.

I didn't really need more paragraphs telling me what Whenever, Wherever sounds like, I kinda remember.

And I remember the conversations around Shakira’s skin & hair color in relation to her crossover success; as well as ppl making fun of her name and “breasts are small and humble” lyric, etc. I’m not sure why we need all those points dutifully rehashed; I’d rather have read something fresh & illuminating about the actual album. But whatever

It kinda felt like — “Shakira’s in the Super Bowl, but let’s not forgot these Problematic Aspects around her initial success in the U.S. (And btw, 7.6)”

"I" is not "we" though. There are a lot of Pitchfork readers who may not remember that discourse—including those who weren't alive for it.

yeah p4k's target readership was probably in daycare when the album came out tho

I don't remember that discourse, because when the album came out I was a 22-year-old snob who wasn't paying attention to pop music.

Fair enuff!

I'm with morrisp on this one. That didn't feel like an album review to me so much as a cultural essay with just enough mention of the album to include it in the album reviews section of the site. The context was interesting for the first half, but it kinda felt like that review was basically all context.

It's not that I disagree, but that is what the Sunday Reviews are, and I don't get why that is so horrifying.

Yeah, like I said last night, I think the Sunday Review generally takes a different approach and perspective than the daily new reviews do. But perhaps the score at the top leads people to think of it along the same lines. Maybe they should get rid of it?

Then how would they retroactively award a 10.0 to an album they wouldn't have touched 15 years ago?

Magazines do it all the time?

e.g. Rolling Stone.

The Sunday Review is one of the best things they do imo.

People who whine about "corporate music" just because it's corporate music don't actually like music; they like being special and use obscure music to make up for not having a personality.

This is true on occasion, but sometimes people whine about 'corporate music' because it takes up so much space that there is precious little room left for other varieties of music. If you're committed to diversity, it's an obstacle.

Cosign that Sunday reviews are the best thing on the site now. I’m not trying to go out of my way to read abt Shakira in 2020 but if pfork is going to chase super bowl clicks I’d rather it be in this form than anything else.

(Fwiw I’ve heard Laundry Service front to back maybe 200 times when an officemate used to play it on repeat, and developed have a visceral nails-on-a-chalkboard reaction to it, and that piece got me to read about it for 10 minutes without having painful flashbacks, so a pretty good piece imho.)

^ That would be an interesting detail for a retrospective review!

i like dont love the review but i definitely think it wouldnt be getting this much wary over-reading if it wasnt reflecting a political shift in coverage vis a vis a pop star

i love the idea that we hear about shakira all the time though, lmao, this was definitely a retro play more than anything ... the last time i remember ppl talking about shakira in public was circa she wolf about a decade ago?

Um... We literally discussed Shakira today over lunch at my office, and I doubt we were the only ones...

ah ooooo

i think a Sunday review covering Shakira and her cultural importance from the perspective of Isabelia Herrera is i mean like a vast improvement over the old Pitchfork days of Brent D analyzing Bobby Digital w/a " Think: "Stan Lee presents... Da Muthaf*&%in' Ghetto!" " esp considering yes the sunday reviews are not a "review" (despite the scor)e as much as it is a more in-depth pondering of its overall history and context.

Um... We literally discussed Shakira today over lunch at my office, and I doubt we were the only ones...

― Frederik B, Monday, February 3, 2020 1:13 PM (eleven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yes ... because of the super bowl

they don't get the superbowl until next month iirc

The idea that there’s some oppressive pop discourse about Shakira is just like wtf... even at the peak of her laundry service fame I remember the discourse being abt her funny translation lyrics & guys liking her butt not some orthodox strain of poptimism

People who whine about "corporate music" just because it's corporate music don't actually like music; they like being special and use obscure music to make up for not having a personality.

This is true on occasion, but sometimes people whine about 'corporate music' because it takes up so much space that there is precious little room left for other varieties of music. If you're committed to diversity, it's an obstacle.

― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Monday, February 3, 2020 11:02 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Also lumping people who hate "corporate music" into a neatly packaged strawman mold is the same cynical write-off that those same people are accused of doing to "corporate music".

People whine about Applebees and TGIF and Mcdonald's and Buffalo Wild Wings but those whiners aren't accused of not actually liking food. That would be an extreme counterpoint.

To be clear, I would accuse those whiners of not actually liking food

I only like alternative food

something else for me and DJP to fight about

analogies are dumb

so is Applebees

I had really fond memories of the riblets at Applebee's but I found an old gift card lying around and went and they weren't as good as I remembered them :(

you can't eat good in the neighborhood again

https://i.imgur.com/v20YVOD.jpg

classic

UMS on some "their earlier material was much better" snobbery smdh

Applebee's sold out

https://www.franchisehelp.com/franchisee-resource-center/top-5-references-to-applebee-s-in-friday-night-lights/

The people who love food the most are dogs

The consistency of the Andy Stott cover art over the last 10 years is impressive. He's playing the long game.

Ha, wrong thread

Perhaps I’ve given the impression I care more than I do. I've long resigned myself to the fact that most of the music I listen to - techno / ambient / drone, some death metal, some jazz - is not really served by Pfork, so I don’t usually make a habit of visiting the site. But I think it's weird to just dismiss jon123's complaints, which to me are valid, even if some of us are tired of flogging this particular horse

Thank you, Paul, for giving me some reassurance that I am not going completely fucking mad.