Yeah, well living in Minnesota is enough to ruin anybody.
― 🚶♂️💨 (Eric H.), Friday, 31 January 2020 15:47 (four years ago) link
The symphonies fared quite well in the 'golden age of stereo' and there are formidable recommendations for almost every piece from that era, yes the digital era brought about more of a focus on the pure cold water angle but the playing itself is often boring, the stereo era outings are often just so much more alive as instrumental playing.
You're right that way too many Sibelius cycles got recorded in the last couple of decades that are simply dull
OK let's do this
SYMPHONIES
1: With its Tchaikovskian/Brucknerian inheritance this is one that was pretty much nailed before CDs came along. Maazel/VPO (NOT later Maazel) for energy and verve, Colin Davis/Boston (NOT Later davis remakes) for all around excellence, Barbirolli/Halle (EMI version) for rough hewn bardic heft2: Similarly, this is owned by Monteux/LSO, Kajanus (the very first recording from 78s), Barbirolli/RPO, and in the early CD era Jarvi/Gothenburg (NOT the later jarvi DG one) which was the first since Kajanus to understand that the first movement is always played too damn slow.3: This one had to wait longer to be nailed, the only stereo era recordings I really rate at the highest level are Bernstein/NYPO and Davis/Boston. CD era, this is one that Vanska does very well and it was also knocked out of the park by Olli Mustonen and Thomas Zehetmair. Blomstedt/San Francisco is also very good.4: Maazel/VPO is still the iciest and most formidable and best recorded (for my sonic tastes). Always avoid all digital-era Maazel. More recently, Segerstam (the one on Ondine not the one on Chandos) kills it here. Vanska's is too slow but interesting.5: Barbirolli/Halle/EMI and Bernstein/NYPO are amazing here. Celibidache if you can find it. Digitally, Ole Schmidt/LSO is my favorite and this is a piece where the later Colin Davis (LSO Live label) is preferable to earlier in Boston where something is just wrong.6: Berglund/Helsinki or Berglund/Bournemouth comes closest to getting this most sublime piece just right. Davis/Boston would be my top choice but he's too fast in one of the movements. Beecham (from 78s) is the most musically alive. Saraste's (RCA not Finlandia) was the disc that made me fall in love with Sibelius so special pride of place to that.7: Maazel/VPO has all the same fierce qualities as the same team's 4th and never fails to slay me. This is the other symphony besides the 5th where elderly Colin Davis on LSO Live hit a transcendent peak. Mravinsky is a must-hear. My favorite of all now is a live radio capture from Charles Munch and the Boston SO but it's not fair to talk about bootlegs.
I'll do the rest of the orchestral works later today
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Friday, 31 January 2020 15:56 (four years ago) link
Booming post, even though I strongly disagree with most of it. :)
― pomenitul, Friday, 31 January 2020 15:59 (four years ago) link
Basically I prefer my Sibelius as muted, frosty, modernist and impersonal as possible.
― pomenitul, Friday, 31 January 2020 16:00 (four years ago) link
Vanska’s your dude then! I was a little harsh on him tbf, his 3rd 5th and 6th are very good, but he errs too much on the side of flatness too oftenI like Segerstam a lot. There is no completely recommendable complete cycle, but Berglund/Helsinki is maybe the only one where none of the 7 gets botched
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Friday, 31 January 2020 16:06 (four years ago) link
Sibelius was commited to a very personal and relentless brand of avant gardeism within the framework of tonality and disallowing himself from ever reaching for strange instrumentation. When he adds a bass clarinet, that’s the equivalent of Mahler rolling out an anvil.
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Friday, 31 January 2020 16:09 (four years ago) link
Last year when I was sick and wasting away with a very severe flu I put on Symphony No. 4 and suddenly Sibelius clicked for me like never before; I felt physically in tune with this music, when I couldn't bear to listen to most other music. Later it was interesting to read that Sibelius composed it at a time when his health was precarious, having recently had operations to remove throat cancer, and fear of death was much on his mind.
― Josefa, Friday, 31 January 2020 16:43 (four years ago) link
not loving that you had a mega flu but loving that post
Luonnatar, the Dryad, the Lizard (Odlan) and parts of the Everyman (Jedermann) music share some of that gnawed vibe
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Friday, 31 January 2020 17:33 (four years ago) link
Re: Lili Boulanger, it's a lovely little piece, but not top 50 material imho.
Assuming this is in reference to D'un matin de printemps and not to Faust et Helene? Although both were named.
― timellison, Tuesday, 4 February 2020 00:22 (four years ago) link
7: Maazel/VPO has all the same fierce qualities as the same team's 4th and never fails to slay me. This is the other symphony besides the 5th where elderly Colin Davis on LSO Live hit a transcendent peak. Mravinsky is a must-hear. My favorite of all now is a live radio capture from Charles Munch and the Boston SO but it's not fair to talk about bootlegs.
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon)
interested in hearing more about the munch/boston SO recording, mostly because it's your favourite.. (only recording i could find on youtube was munch conducting the RTF in helsinki)
― you know my name, look up the number of the beast (rushomancy), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 01:17 (four years ago) link
Correct.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 09:53 (four years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Wednesday, 5 February 2020 00:01 (four years ago) link
Xpost I mean it’s my favorite right now because I’m just so bowled over by its singular vision but it wouldn’t really be a “responsible” choice for an “all time favorite” Sibelius 7th - it’s really really slow, almost certainly the slowest ever, like in the 28 minute range; I didn’t think it’d work at all but it does, like crazy. Drama and tension never lets up. It can’t be what Sibelius wanted but it kills.
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 01:13 (four years ago) link
wellll i was kind of fishing for a ysi since it's not commercially available :)
― you know my name, look up the number of the beast (rushomancy), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 02:11 (four years ago) link
Btw, for the 1920s poll, pls don't forget Heitor Villa-Lobos - Douze études pour guitare. Probably won't defeat the best of Bartok/Webern/Schoenberg but the 11th is still probably my favourite thing to play.
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 02:26 (four years ago) link
Debussy Sonata for Flute, Viola, and Harp is peak music
― J. Sam, Wednesday, 5 February 2020 03:20 (four years ago) link
Don't worry Sund4r, I've got you covered. I've got reservations aplenty about Villa-Lobos's output but those Etudes are all-time.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 09:23 (four years ago) link
Xpost quite possibly my favorite piece of chamber music
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 13:56 (four years ago) link
So many cool prototypical and influential ensembles from this general time period That Debussy trioThe “Pierrot ensemble”Bartok two pianos and percussion
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 13:58 (four years ago) link
OTM
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 14:01 (four years ago) link
Yeah, that's 100% otm.
I'm really struggling here. Might just go with The Oceanides in the end but Vers la flamme is equally tempting (they all are).
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 18:12 (four years ago) link
Fuck it, I'm going with Mahler's 9th, which was probably the most important music ever to me as a 19 year-old.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 18:14 (four years ago) link
the first movement is about as good as music gets
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 18:39 (four years ago) link
Yep. And when Jascha Horenstein is conducting it, the whole thing.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 18:40 (four years ago) link
i'll give this one to scriabin sonata 10
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 5 February 2020 18:44 (four years ago) link
Deserved imo. Which reminds me:
My Tenth Sonata is a sonata of insects. Insects are born from the sun ... they are the kisses of the sun.
Ok Alex.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 18:47 (four years ago) link
you know he's right
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 5 February 2020 18:54 (four years ago) link
I never heard back from mark! Did the description of sprechgesang give you something to process and disagree with?
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 19:03 (four years ago) link
Almost ran out of time again. Somewhat arbitrary late vote for the Ravel (D&C) I had in mind before I even saw the list. Aaargh.
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Wednesday, 5 February 2020 23:46 (four years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Thursday, 6 February 2020 00:01 (four years ago) link
Poor moonstruck Pierrot.
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 February 2020 03:29 (four years ago) link
Hard to argue with the winner, though.
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 February 2020 03:36 (four years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Art_works_that_caused_riots
― mookieproof, Thursday, 6 February 2020 03:40 (four years ago) link
I respect Stravinsky far more than I enjoy his music but it's impossible to argue with the Sacre.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Thursday, 6 February 2020 09:02 (four years ago) link
Onwards, fellow travellers:
Wherein We Elect Our Favourite Classical Compositions of… the 1920s
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Thursday, 6 February 2020 09:06 (four years ago) link
While I feel the best piece won this poll, I'm now listening to the Ralph Vaughan Williams compositions for the first time and these two here are unbelievably sublime. The Lark Ascending and Fantasia are just magical pieces of music. Possibly a bit on the tail end of fashion given their romantic roots, but good lord what sheer beauty.
― octobeard, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 20:57 (four years ago) link
yeah they're wonderful, just an absurdly rich decade
― ogmor, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 20:59 (four years ago) link
Indeed they are, and Arvo Pärt's now ubiquitous compositional style seems unthinkable without the Fantasia in particular. It's tempting to think of Stravinsky (and Prokofiev) as the torchbearers of 'primitivism' in the 1910s, but Vaughan Williams's musical language in these pieces also taps into an imagined 'archaic' consciousness, one grounded in endless melody instead of polyrhythm and not all that dissimilar Erik Satie's own self-consciously naïve experiments in simplicity.
By the way, Andrew Davis's studio recording of the Fantasia with the BBC Symphony Orchestra is stellar, but I think I like this live performance even better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpwqZSp_CyM
― coco vide (pomenitul), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 21:21 (four years ago) link
*dissimilar from
― coco vide (pomenitul), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 21:25 (four years ago) link
all these last posts otm
― Two Gentlemen with the Rona (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 21:26 (four years ago) link
pom could you suggest a relatively recent piece which exemplifies “Arvo Pärt's now ubiquitous compositional style” and wherein i might hear this RVW influence ?
― budo jeru, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 22:29 (four years ago) link
I hear echoes of both in Dobrinka Tabakova's music.
― coco vide (pomenitul), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 22:36 (four years ago) link
Btw Pärt's Silouans Song strikes me as a good example of what he (consciously?) owes to RVW.
― coco vide (pomenitul), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 22:38 (four years ago) link
The Lark Ascending and Fantasia are just magical pieces of music.
Indeed they are. Thanks for linking to that Davis' recording Pom!
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 25 March 2020 09:41 (four years ago) link