Artists/bands that were once quite popular, yet nowadays are mostly ignored in canonical history books

Jane’s Addiction were more popular than Midnight Oil. Didn’t have a crossover hit, but, def sold more records in the US.

1) alternative rock is always more likely to be obviously influential on alternative rock than mainstream rock is

Yes, but my point is that Midnight Oil was considered "alternative rock" in North America the late 80s/early 90s. They were on Billboard's alternative songs chart from the first year they ever published the chart: https://www.billboard.com/music/midnight-oil/chart-history/MRT . The heavier bands we're talking about were also considered alternative rock, although they were less popular, but their version is the one that became more influential on 90s alternative rock and thus they are accorded more historical significance. I like Midnight Oil's singles a fair bit btw!

I don't think that was true about Jane's at the time that Diesel and Dust and Nothing's Shocking were roughly contemporary?

Ahh. I was talking about at their height.

What about stuff like Technotronic and Snap? This stuff felt new and important at the time, though I was 12-13 at the time and had a pretty limited view of what music was. Seems to have been mostly forgotten by the mid 90s.

Downgraded by rockist canon for being artificial / non-auteurist, both also had consistency issues during their peaks with fake frontwomen and repeated legal disputes with their regular vocalists.

Also, neither act was designing their music with longevity or legacy in mind.

the Sugar Hill story and the Def Jam story on either side take up so much air

could throw Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five in here too, it involves a lot of the same people and has a big "what could have been" aspect to it

“The Sugarhill Gang” were on Kimmel (‘s youtube channel the morning after) the other night. They consisted of Melle Mel, Scorpio, Wonder Mike and Master Gee, plus a guy called Diggity Dog who changed Big Bank Hank’s line’s to award himself Grandmaster Caz’s writing credit and update the “more clothes than Muhammad Ali” line right up to 1997 by making it Puff Daddy, plus a backing-track-cue-er plus two other guys waving and clapping on the DJ stand, who I’m guessing are grandsons of Sylvia Robinson or finance bros that bought the name, or something.

What about stuff like Technotronic and Snap? This stuff felt new and important at the time, though I was 12-13 at the time and had a pretty limited view of what music was. Seems to have been mostly forgotten by the mid 90s.

(Technotronic also great obv, but I need less reminding of that)

I was very surprised to learn how many hits Boney M had, for how little they are discussed today

Update: yes, those Snap! hits hold up (“Do You See The Light? (Looking For)”!), and wow, their 2005 comeback non-hit “Beauty Queen” that I only remember ever hearing in our local cruising bar is ridiculously awesome too - what a chorus!

xp

“The Sugarhill Gang” were on Kimmel (‘s youtube channel the morning after) the other night. They consisted of Melle Mel, Scorpio, Wonder Mike and Master Gee, plus a guy called Diggity Dog who changed Big Bank Hank’s line’s to award himself Grandmaster Caz’s writing credit and update the “more clothes than Muhammad Ali” line right up to 1997 by making it Puff Daddy, plus a backing-track-cue-er plus two other guys waving and clapping on the DJ stand, who I’m guessing are grandsons of Sylvia Robinson or finance bros that bought the name, or something.

the Grandmaster/Furious Five lineage is seriously confusing, as far as I can tell Grandmaster Flash & Melle Mel had a major falling out but kept titling their records to imply that the other one was on it, despite constantly ripping each other in public. sucks cuz outside of a few singles like "White Lines" neither of them produced anything that even touched the first LP and I think Sugarhill Records wound up ripping everyone off. a couple years ago some of the original gang tried to re-release "The Message" as a shot at Flash but it came off really desperate

long story short is that Flash wanted to get out from Sylvia Robinson's thumb, the rest didn't. The one thing Flash managed to retain the rights to in the resulting court case was his own name.

Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five were never really an "album" group, all their best stuff was singles.

yeah I guess when I say "first LP" I just mean that 79-82 period. always think of The Message LP as more of a compilation really

and of course Flash isn't on "White Lines" or "The Message". His most canonical recorded work is "The Adventures of Grandmaster Flash on the Wheels of Steel".

xps

IMO Technotronic and Snap! are among the best remembered Eurodance acts of the '90s, alongside U96, Ace of Base, Haddaway, Aqua, and 2 Unlimited. There were many other acts with multiple hits who are not really talked about much today, such as MC Sar & The Real McCoy, Culture Beat, Dr. Alban, Twenty 4 Seven, Basic Element, Cappella, Urban Cookie Collective, Captain Hollywood Project, E-Rotic, DJ Bobo, Leila K, Double You, Masterboy, E-Type, Loft, etc.

some thoughts:

1. jane's addiction never made a wholly front to back GREAT full length album. midnight oil made a few. anybody talking trash on blue sky mining has clearly not listened to it in full. seriously, go back to it: it's a really solid record. it's also a regional thing with them; they were rather popular in australia and remain so. i've heard them legitimately described as the "australian u2" on many occasions.

2. the one thing that sticks out for me in this category is no limit records. that stuff was everywhere in the late 90s. now though, most of those guys are considered a punchline, if they're even considered at all.

3. where does someone like tracy chapman fall in this? she was quite popular in her day, no? i know 'gimme one reason' and 'fast car' still get radio play, but no big critical reassessment / appreciation seems to be on the horizon.

also, holy shit tuomas!!

Captain Hollywood Project

i had 'more and more' on 45! always had it cued up with the 45 for mc hammer 'addams' groove' right after.

ahem

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/tracy-chapman-tracy-chapman/

IMO Technotronic and Snap! are among the best remembered Eurodance acts of the '90s, alongside U96, Ace of Base, Haddaway, Aqua, and 2 Unlimited. There were many other acts with multiple hits who are not really talked about much today, such as MC Sar & The Real McCoy, Culture Beat, Dr. Alban, Twenty 4 Seven, Basic Element, Cappella, Urban Cookie Collective, Captain Hollywood Project, E-Rotic, DJ Bobo, Leila K, Double You, Masterboy, E-Type, Loft, etc.

― Tuomas, Monday, October 28, 2019 2:36 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is a good list to spotify with.

long story short is that Flash wanted to get out from Sylvia Robinson's thumb, the rest didn't. The one thing Flash managed to retain the rights to in the resulting court case was his own name.

xp don't forget Ice MC!

I thought about him, but he was more of one-hit wonder, no? With one big hit and one minor follow-up? It's not that weird for one-hit wonders to be forgotten.

My sound of 1989 = Leila K, Technotronic, Neneh Cherry, Silver Bullet, Black Box

The Message was released as the extremely dodgy “Grand Master Flash & The Furious Five”, rather than Grandmaster

anybody talking trash on blue sky mining has clearly not listened to it in full. seriously, go back to it: i

I listened in full lots when it came out, because I probably had 15 tapes total, and got off the bus - 10 to 1, Red Sails and Species Deceases were what I dug most about them. At the secret 2005 reunion show in a leagues club they played a bunch of it & the songs killed tbf

ahem
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/tracy-chapman-tracy-chapman/
― Οὖτις, Monday, October 28, 2019 2:42 PM

ahh. welp. i don't read that garbage pile regularly, so that figures.

Wait is Black Box forgotten? Because that was definitely the sound of 1990 where I was.

Black Box better remembered than their other aliases #justice4starlight

Black Box are better-remembered than many - otoh Silver Bullet need recognition

I still have my black box cassette somewhere. l don't really remember what was on it apart from everybody everybody though

Manfred Mann

Barbra Streisand

I have not forgotten these cheesy early 90s eurodance acts because they were my lifeblood til I hit about 14 or 15 and started hating things

I guess the entire once-popular sub-genre of late 60s blues rock has been ground down to a few remembered artists/songs over the decades

― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes)

that's because it all fucking sounds the same!

The Kingston Trio

Joan Armatrading is a good example, I think: very popular in the 70s and 80s, but now almost completely written out of history.

No star image at all, but very much recognised by other musicians for establishing control over all aspects of her music. The recent BBC documentary about her did a good job of telling her story. "I'm doing everything. When I do it, I'm a control freak. When Prince does it, he's a genius."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrGYaRxcsoA

I wonder if the Kingston Trio is a good example or not. They were derided by contemporary critics for bringing a pop sensibility to the folk repertoire, while historians recognize their influential role in popularizing the genre & paving the way for Dylan and the folk-rock explosion. Seems about right to me. I guess they might be eligible for a poptimist reappraisal, altho their appropriation and whitewashing of tunes from various traditions would remain, ah, problematic within that frame.

Armatrading, Chapman, Etheridge seem like excellent examples.

Kingston Trio were covered in any pop history textbook I ever used tbh, in the way you describe.

I kind of want to say The Charlatans a little bit. I mean, they headlined Reading in the late 90s which is no mean feat, but they've always been seen as second-tier also-rans, somewhere between Britpop and baggy but never as revered as the Stone Roses or Oasis

Some are mentioned in the thread already, but there's a whole class of classic rock era US bands that ended up without much of a legacy despite the steady hits - Lovin' Spoonful, Grass Roots, Three Dog Night, Blood Sweat and Tears. Similar bands who've kept listeners could rock harder, like Creedence, or drone more, like The Byrds. There's a folky squareness, emphasizing harmony over riffing, that relegates them to oldies radio.

What about Triumph? Based on Wikipedia, 1 platinum and 3 gold records in the US; 3 platinum or multiplatinum + 5 gold records in Canada; still a classic rock radio staple in Canada at least. I'm not sure they get much ink in history books at all (probably bc they were relatively generic - don't tell their fans).

(That said, "Midsummer's Daydream" 4eva)

Man, "Magic Power" earwormed into my waking mind the other morning, after decades of forgetting it's existence, and that song is a rabbit foot keychain hanging out Camero ignition.

Early 90s UK post-baggy pre-britpop indie seems to exist only as nostalgia for those who were actually there, have a look at who was on the cover of the NME in 1991-1993

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NME_covers

Though of course The Wonderstuff / Cud / PWEI / Kingmaker / Carter USM / Mega City Four / Neds Atomic Dustbin never really sold that many records even at the time either.

Lene Lovich.

90s-era indie owns this thread:

Tsunami
Blonde Redhead
Son Volt
Unrest
Adam Green / Kimya Dawson
Grifters
Pedro The Lion
Jon Spencer
East River Pipe
etc
Jawbox

I think Son Volt's Trace is still pretty big in the Americana world

but yeah, most of those groups felt 3rd tier at the time and never all that popular

except for JSBE, who were inexplicably a huge deal in Tucson when I growing up