Artists/bands that were once quite popular, yet nowadays are mostly ignored in canonical history books

Yeah, but apparently Harvey, undoubtedly the main face of the group, was in the reformed group from 2006 to 2010, yet that didn't seem to translate to any kind of success comparable to Take That's reunion.

A few ilx0rs went to see E17 in Australia during the time when Brian Harvey had left and Tony Mortimer was acting as lead singer. The show was a full concert-length PA with no band, and in a kind gesture Mortimer had allowed the two dancers to write & perform their first song. This is presumably what emboldened them to carry on without either a singer or songwriter when he realised the whole thing was going nowhere.

Midnight Oil (in North America)?

They reformed in 2017 after 15 years and

Sat 6 May Center Stage | Atlanta, GA
Sun 7 May Beale Street Music Festival | Memphis, TN
Tue 9 May The Filmore | Silver Spring, MD
Thu 11 May House of Blues | Boston, MA
Sat 13 May Webster Hall | New York City, NY
Sun 14 May Webster Hall | New York City, NY
Tue 16 May Keswick Theatre | Glenside, PA
Thu 18 May The Vic | Chicago, IL
Sat 20 May Danforth Music Hall | Toronto, Canada
Tue 23 May Paramount Theatre | Denver, CO
Thu 25 May The Wiltern | Los Angeles, CA
Sat 27 May Fox Theater | Oakland, CA
Mon 29 May Revolution Hall | Portland, OR
Wed 31 May Moore Theatre | Seattle, WA
Fri 2 June Malkin Bowl | Vancouver, Canada (19+)


Midnight Oil I've never even heard of.

this one checks out tbh

Wed 21 June E-Werk | Cologne, Germany
Fri 23 June Paradiso | Amsterdam, Holland
Sun 25 June Huxleys Neue Welt | Berlin, Germany
Tue 27 June Amager Bio | Copenhagen, Denmark
Thu 29 June Rockafeller Music Hall | Oslo, Norway
Sat 1 July Furuviksparken | Gävle, Sweden
Tue 4 July Hammersmith Eventim Apollo | London, UK
Thu 6 July Olympia | Paris, France
Fri 7 July Festival de Beauregard | HÉROUVILLE-Saint-Claire, France
Sun 9 July Les Deferlantes Festival | Argeles-sur-Mer, France
Wed 12 July Volkshaus | Zurich, Switzerland
Fri 14 July Musilac | Aix Les Bains, France
Sun 16 July Les Vieilles Charrues | Carhaix, France
Tue 18 July Batschkapp | Frankfurt, Germany
Wed 19 July Le Paléo Festival Nyon Music Festival | Nyon, Switzerland
Fri 21 July Colours of Ostrava | Ostrava, Czech Republic
Sun 23 July Hammersmith Eventim Apollo | London, UK
Tue 25 July Olympia | Paris, France

I think the entire wave of 1984-1985 hip-hop gets unjustly ignored just because the Sugar Hill story and the Def Jam story on either side take up so much air

Whodini, UTFO, Fat Boys, Kurtis Blow, Jeckyll & Hyde, Grandmixer DST and the Celluloid Records axis, Doug E. Fresh, Boogie Boys, Whistle, Word of Mouth...

Kurtis Blow on tour with The Hip-Hop Nutcracker right now

(Whodini is out with Slick Rick, Big Daddy Kane and Nice & Smooth, which gets like three mini-generations of nostalgia listeners at once)

also Midnight Oil did a second US/.ca leg of their sexagenarian reunion tour

Sat 19 Aug The Greek | Los Angeles, CA
Mon 21 Aug Terminal 5 | New York, NY
Wed 23 Aug Place Des Arts | Montreal, QC
Fri 25 Aug Budweiser Stage | Toronto, ON
Sun 27 Aug House of Blues | Cleveland, OH
Tue 29 Aug First Avenue | Minneapolis, MN

the Sugar Hill story and the Def Jam story on either side take up so much air

this sounds right to me too. There's no clear narrative or big heroes/villains in that intervening period, it feels like a bunch of disconnected stuff, lots of "novelty" records etc.

Playing big venues on a reunion tour doesn't necessarily mean that a band gets significant coverage in historical/critical writing or that they are exposed often to people who weren't around for the band's initial wavw of popularity but I am not sure about Midnight Oil.

Like, they were far more popular in their time than Jane's Addiction, Husker Du, or Sonic Youth but the latter kind of 'modern rock' bands became more influential on the direction in which alternative rock went and so are usually treated as more historically important. Nor did Midnight Oil persist as stadium rock stars in the 90s on this continent like REM and U2 did.

Were they ever stadium rock stars?

Midnight Oil were a big alternative band in the late 80s in the USA. I saw them on that tour, they played the Felt Forum at Madison Square Garden, which seated a couple thousand.

Fine Young Cannibals seem to fit the criteria for this thread.

far more popular in their time than Jane's Addiction, Husker Du, or Sonic Youth but the latter kind of 'modern rock' bands became more influential on the direction in which alternative rock went

btw

1) alternative rock is always more likely to be obviously influential on alternative rock than mainstream rock is
2) each of Janes (original lineup), Husker and (1980s) SY records sound fairly identifiably like their others, allowing for a focus on influence. Blue Sky Mining sounds like a boring mersh version of Diesel And Dust, but Diesel doesn’t sound like Red Sails or the blue meanie or Earth & Sun & Moon or Redneck Wonderland, which also don’t sound similarly like each other
3) there’s a p obvious reason why canonical North American rock history wouldn’t credit Midnight Oil as influencing North American alt-rock even if they had had such an influence, which they didn’t. Mark Arm is STILL explaining in interviews in 2019 that Mudhoney didn’t invent grunge, that they were trying to sound like [lists Australian bands, takes the Scientists on tour as opener]

Jane’s Addiction were more popular than Midnight Oil. Didn’t have a crossover hit, but, def sold more records in the US.

1) alternative rock is always more likely to be obviously influential on alternative rock than mainstream rock is

Yes, but my point is that Midnight Oil was considered "alternative rock" in North America the late 80s/early 90s. They were on Billboard's alternative songs chart from the first year they ever published the chart: https://www.billboard.com/music/midnight-oil/chart-history/MRT . The heavier bands we're talking about were also considered alternative rock, although they were less popular, but their version is the one that became more influential on 90s alternative rock and thus they are accorded more historical significance. I like Midnight Oil's singles a fair bit btw!

I don't think that was true about Jane's at the time that Diesel and Dust and Nothing's Shocking were roughly contemporary?

Ahh. I was talking about at their height.

What about stuff like Technotronic and Snap? This stuff felt new and important at the time, though I was 12-13 at the time and had a pretty limited view of what music was. Seems to have been mostly forgotten by the mid 90s.

Downgraded by rockist canon for being artificial / non-auteurist, both also had consistency issues during their peaks with fake frontwomen and repeated legal disputes with their regular vocalists.

Also, neither act was designing their music with longevity or legacy in mind.

the Sugar Hill story and the Def Jam story on either side take up so much air

could throw Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five in here too, it involves a lot of the same people and has a big "what could have been" aspect to it

“The Sugarhill Gang” were on Kimmel (‘s youtube channel the morning after) the other night. They consisted of Melle Mel, Scorpio, Wonder Mike and Master Gee, plus a guy called Diggity Dog who changed Big Bank Hank’s line’s to award himself Grandmaster Caz’s writing credit and update the “more clothes than Muhammad Ali” line right up to 1997 by making it Puff Daddy, plus a backing-track-cue-er plus two other guys waving and clapping on the DJ stand, who I’m guessing are grandsons of Sylvia Robinson or finance bros that bought the name, or something.

What about stuff like Technotronic and Snap? This stuff felt new and important at the time, though I was 12-13 at the time and had a pretty limited view of what music was. Seems to have been mostly forgotten by the mid 90s.

(Technotronic also great obv, but I need less reminding of that)

I was very surprised to learn how many hits Boney M had, for how little they are discussed today

Update: yes, those Snap! hits hold up (“Do You See The Light? (Looking For)”!), and wow, their 2005 comeback non-hit “Beauty Queen” that I only remember ever hearing in our local cruising bar is ridiculously awesome too - what a chorus!

xp

“The Sugarhill Gang” were on Kimmel (‘s youtube channel the morning after) the other night. They consisted of Melle Mel, Scorpio, Wonder Mike and Master Gee, plus a guy called Diggity Dog who changed Big Bank Hank’s line’s to award himself Grandmaster Caz’s writing credit and update the “more clothes than Muhammad Ali” line right up to 1997 by making it Puff Daddy, plus a backing-track-cue-er plus two other guys waving and clapping on the DJ stand, who I’m guessing are grandsons of Sylvia Robinson or finance bros that bought the name, or something.

the Grandmaster/Furious Five lineage is seriously confusing, as far as I can tell Grandmaster Flash & Melle Mel had a major falling out but kept titling their records to imply that the other one was on it, despite constantly ripping each other in public. sucks cuz outside of a few singles like "White Lines" neither of them produced anything that even touched the first LP and I think Sugarhill Records wound up ripping everyone off. a couple years ago some of the original gang tried to re-release "The Message" as a shot at Flash but it came off really desperate

long story short is that Flash wanted to get out from Sylvia Robinson's thumb, the rest didn't. The one thing Flash managed to retain the rights to in the resulting court case was his own name.

Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five were never really an "album" group, all their best stuff was singles.

yeah I guess when I say "first LP" I just mean that 79-82 period. always think of The Message LP as more of a compilation really

and of course Flash isn't on "White Lines" or "The Message". His most canonical recorded work is "The Adventures of Grandmaster Flash on the Wheels of Steel".

xps

IMO Technotronic and Snap! are among the best remembered Eurodance acts of the '90s, alongside U96, Ace of Base, Haddaway, Aqua, and 2 Unlimited. There were many other acts with multiple hits who are not really talked about much today, such as MC Sar & The Real McCoy, Culture Beat, Dr. Alban, Twenty 4 Seven, Basic Element, Cappella, Urban Cookie Collective, Captain Hollywood Project, E-Rotic, DJ Bobo, Leila K, Double You, Masterboy, E-Type, Loft, etc.

some thoughts:

1. jane's addiction never made a wholly front to back GREAT full length album. midnight oil made a few. anybody talking trash on blue sky mining has clearly not listened to it in full. seriously, go back to it: it's a really solid record. it's also a regional thing with them; they were rather popular in australia and remain so. i've heard them legitimately described as the "australian u2" on many occasions.

2. the one thing that sticks out for me in this category is no limit records. that stuff was everywhere in the late 90s. now though, most of those guys are considered a punchline, if they're even considered at all.

3. where does someone like tracy chapman fall in this? she was quite popular in her day, no? i know 'gimme one reason' and 'fast car' still get radio play, but no big critical reassessment / appreciation seems to be on the horizon.

also, holy shit tuomas!!

Captain Hollywood Project

i had 'more and more' on 45! always had it cued up with the 45 for mc hammer 'addams' groove' right after.

ahem

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/tracy-chapman-tracy-chapman/

IMO Technotronic and Snap! are among the best remembered Eurodance acts of the '90s, alongside U96, Ace of Base, Haddaway, Aqua, and 2 Unlimited. There were many other acts with multiple hits who are not really talked about much today, such as MC Sar & The Real McCoy, Culture Beat, Dr. Alban, Twenty 4 Seven, Basic Element, Cappella, Urban Cookie Collective, Captain Hollywood Project, E-Rotic, DJ Bobo, Leila K, Double You, Masterboy, E-Type, Loft, etc.

― Tuomas, Monday, October 28, 2019 2:36 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is a good list to spotify with.

long story short is that Flash wanted to get out from Sylvia Robinson's thumb, the rest didn't. The one thing Flash managed to retain the rights to in the resulting court case was his own name.

xp don't forget Ice MC!

I thought about him, but he was more of one-hit wonder, no? With one big hit and one minor follow-up? It's not that weird for one-hit wonders to be forgotten.

My sound of 1989 = Leila K, Technotronic, Neneh Cherry, Silver Bullet, Black Box

The Message was released as the extremely dodgy “Grand Master Flash & The Furious Five”, rather than Grandmaster

anybody talking trash on blue sky mining has clearly not listened to it in full. seriously, go back to it: i

I listened in full lots when it came out, because I probably had 15 tapes total, and got off the bus - 10 to 1, Red Sails and Species Deceases were what I dug most about them. At the secret 2005 reunion show in a leagues club they played a bunch of it & the songs killed tbf

ahem
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/tracy-chapman-tracy-chapman/
― Οὖτις, Monday, October 28, 2019 2:42 PM

ahh. welp. i don't read that garbage pile regularly, so that figures.

Wait is Black Box forgotten? Because that was definitely the sound of 1990 where I was.

Black Box better remembered than their other aliases #justice4starlight

Black Box are better-remembered than many - otoh Silver Bullet need recognition

I still have my black box cassette somewhere. l don't really remember what was on it apart from everybody everybody though

Manfred Mann

Barbra Streisand

I have not forgotten these cheesy early 90s eurodance acts because they were my lifeblood til I hit about 14 or 15 and started hating things

I guess the entire once-popular sub-genre of late 60s blues rock has been ground down to a few remembered artists/songs over the decades

― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes)

that's because it all fucking sounds the same!

The Kingston Trio

Joan Armatrading is a good example, I think: very popular in the 70s and 80s, but now almost completely written out of history.

No star image at all, but very much recognised by other musicians for establishing control over all aspects of her music. The recent BBC documentary about her did a good job of telling her story. "I'm doing everything. When I do it, I'm a control freak. When Prince does it, he's a genius."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrGYaRxcsoA

I wonder if the Kingston Trio is a good example or not. They were derided by contemporary critics for bringing a pop sensibility to the folk repertoire, while historians recognize their influential role in popularizing the genre & paving the way for Dylan and the folk-rock explosion. Seems about right to me. I guess they might be eligible for a poptimist reappraisal, altho their appropriation and whitewashing of tunes from various traditions would remain, ah, problematic within that frame.

Armatrading, Chapman, Etheridge seem like excellent examples.

Kingston Trio were covered in any pop history textbook I ever used tbh, in the way you describe.