what's the SCOTUS of poptimism
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 7 October 2019 22:26 (four years ago) link
xxxpost this is not all a flight from Eden story.
On one level, I look back fondly on the era of Tom E writing an article where Jessica Simpson explains pop intertextuality, and the associated prospect that people might get very excited about a song like "I Think I'm In Love With You", which would seem odd today.
On another level, the prevailing condition that made that possible was a blanket dismissal of pop almost across the board which effectively levelled the poptimist playing field (such that championing a song by Jessica Simpson and championing a song by Destiny's Child seemed like the same critical manoeuvre) (indeed, that article played on the general assumption that Jessica was not responsible for her art in order to maximise its enjoyment value).
I whether the kind of artistic narrative that Beyonce has sought to forge in the past decade would have worked nearly so well in the previous decade.
― Tim F, Monday, 7 October 2019 22:26 (four years ago) link
*I wonder whether...
v disappointed each entry didn't come with its own craft beer pairing suggestion, honestly. how can i properly enjoy my solange without a bottle of floral suds?
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Monday, 7 October 2019 22:28 (four years ago) link
― Tim F, Monday, October 7, 2019
isn't this a bit of a circular argument? In the 2000s Beyonce quietly recorded albums that created the conditions in which future critics would appraise her?
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 7 October 2019 22:31 (four years ago) link
Really?! I love both songs, but then CRJ has always coded weird to me. Do you congratulate her for the unabashed world-conquering hit or point readers toward the opening track on an album far fewer people bought? Sometimes you pick the obvious choice but make a compelling case.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, October 7, 2019 6:23 PM (two minutes ago)
i don't really rate "run away with me" but it is the song that turned her into the queer internet's meme queen, which ime explains the long arc of her career more than "call me maybe" does
― J0rdan S., Monday, 7 October 2019 22:31 (four years ago) link
many xps- gyptian is one of my favs on the list :) 19yo me started this thread gyptian - holdyuh
tbc i don't think the list should just be a c/p of the billboard top 50 + some indie anthems--but i do think puja did pull some editorial crimes (of corniness) in 'presenting the curated consensus'
― flopson, Monday, 7 October 2019 22:33 (four years ago) link
yeah I guess it's me because Frank Ocean means nothing to this member of the queer internet
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 7 October 2019 22:33 (four years ago) link
xpost
i don't think major label pop artists going album oriented in the 00s would have worked anywhere near as well then bc it feels like social media has played a huge part in allowing those to be successful even as radio has increasingly ignored them, though maybe im conflating those issues idk
― ufo, Monday, 7 October 2019 22:35 (four years ago) link
there's an editorial reality to listmaking which is that you're working with a fixed number of spots and you can't 100% truthfully represent consensus.
please flopson don't hurt us when you drop arrow's impossibility theorem into the thread
― j., Monday, 7 October 2019 22:36 (four years ago) link
also lol to austin complaining about gerrymandering, do you really want even more drake songs on it
― ufo, Monday, 7 October 2019 22:36 (four years ago) link
today's much stronger critical emphasis on surrounding narrative context, which inevitably results in a critical de-emphasis on 'gems'
rip teh eternal quest for jams
― flopson, Monday, 7 October 2019 22:39 (four years ago) link
― j., Monday, October 7, 2019 6:36 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
they should absolutely implement quadratic voting
― flopson, Monday, 7 October 2019 22:40 (four years ago) link
we should do that for ILX polls too fyi
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 7 October 2019 22:31 (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
no and yes:
1) Dangerously in Love is not Lemonade; even B'Day does not have that aura of Serious Artist.
2) It's obviously the case that the 00s created the conditions for the 00s, which is also kind of my point - poptimism 1.0 was a reaction to an era when such reappraisals were at a low ebb, such that even if Beyonce had recorded Lemonade at that time it probably would have been largely ignored critically. Poptimism 2.0 in turn was a natural response to pop music being seen as more capable of credibility.
― Tim F, Monday, 7 October 2019 22:41 (four years ago) link
Also what ufo said about social media
― Tim F, Monday, 7 October 2019 22:42 (four years ago) link
― ufo,
Also: the events of 2014 and a certain election in 2016
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 7 October 2019 22:43 (four years ago) link
interesting how the themes of the write-ups in the the '00s end of decade list mirror those of the '10s list--technology/social media, the dance between rap, pop and indie, economic distress, racism--yet also seem so quaint given how intensely all those trends have accelerated
― flopson, Monday, 7 October 2019 22:47 (four years ago) link
For my taste a few of the blurbs found few musical correlatives for the politics, but chacon son goute.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 7 October 2019 22:53 (four years ago) link
Why the fuck is ilx doing a aughts poll now ... I’m not participating bc I was working on my own list for the 10s I don’t have time for that
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Monday, 7 October 2019 22:53 (four years ago) link
ya it's totally stupid
― flopson, Monday, 7 October 2019 22:55 (four years ago) link
the elimination of shame and defensiveness
surely some combination of shame and defensiveness = the only legitimate impetus to write anything at all
― blows with the wind donors (crüt), Monday, 7 October 2019 22:58 (four years ago) link
Why the fuck is ilx doing a aughts poll now
a) because it's been ten years b) why on earth not v disappointed each entry didn't come with its own craft beer pairing suggestion, honestly. how can i properly enjoy my solange without a bottle of floral suds?
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin)
show us on the bottle where the website touched you
― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Monday, 7 October 2019 23:00 (four years ago) link
why make a list of "pop" music and leave out the fun stupid stuff? my friends, have we forgotten how to party rock?
― blows with the wind donors (crüt), Monday, 7 October 2019 23:07 (four years ago) link
sorry for forgetting how to do party rocking
― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Monday, 7 October 2019 23:13 (four years ago) link
in the beard, obvs wtf
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Monday, 7 October 2019 23:17 (four years ago) link
also lol sexual abuse jokes are awesome!
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Tuesday, 8 October 2019 00:05 (four years ago) link
it would seem that u are mad
― flopson, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 00:13 (four years ago) link
It seems there are some problems even poptimism is powerless to solve
― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 00:22 (four years ago) link
*reads list thoroughly*
tf where is "Yankin"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wre5gHAJxNc
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 8 October 2019 04:15 (four years ago) link
this thread needs some deej
― flopson, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 04:16 (four years ago) link
honestly kinda disappointed in how quickly today petered our, been looking fwd to posting abt this shit all decade
wait 4 the albums list
― Spry at 78 (morrisp), Tuesday, 8 October 2019 04:36 (four years ago) link
do we have a thread for 2010s GEMS only
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 8 October 2019 05:51 (four years ago) link
https://✧✧✧.il✧✧✧.com/ILX/FullTextSearchControllerServlet?terms=kkeller✧✧✧@earthl✧✧✧.n✧✧&offset=0&searchtype=id&startdate=&enddate=&artefact=messages&idtype=loginid&sortorder=Descending&boardid=0
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 8 October 2019 05:58 (four years ago) link
I barely recognized any of the songs on this list because I’m a grumpy out-of-touch 37-year-old, so I sampled some of it. Dear millennials or gen z or whatever you call yourselves: your music fucking sucks.
― Mr. Snrub, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 07:45 (four years ago) link
had no idea i was a year younger than mr snrub
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Tuesday, 8 October 2019 08:36 (four years ago) link
Shame that none of the smart British guitar rock gets a look in (Wild Beasts, Wolf Alice, Horrors, Foals, etc) but then this is Pitchfork I guess.
― piscesx, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 09:20 (four years ago) link
we're all kind of missing the main reason this list is terrible. where's the mindblowing stuff like 'akrakabo'? pfft. far too weird (despite being a pop song with a video & universally adored on here). pfork wants it basic af because you can sell basic. as i said, plenty of good songs here but they're p much all tastefully-constructed pop songs of some hue. a list with some stuff like this is good, but it's almost universal, from a decade when SO MUCH happened. this is '10s music on absolute easy mode, curated to be as achingly hip as possible for the vapid trend-aligned extremely online music types we should and do aspire to be better than. we all know and frequently affirm that the best of these year/decade-end lists are compiled by those who've dived deep into their chosen genres and tried to listen to as much as possible that might appeal to them. pitchfork's list comes off as focus-grouped, tidied, pruned of anything interesting or challenging and above all dull. they have the gall to proclaim in a statement that these simply are the best songs of the decade, and that it took then months to decide on them. to which my reaction is 'huh'. they have anointed their kings and queens and who are we to question the tastemaker
― imago, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 09:28 (four years ago) link
something very telling is their year-end 'avant-garde' list, as distinct from their main list rather than integrated into it. one of their deeper-diving contributors flashes up something as obviously amazing as l'rain, they're like 'hmm this is great but a bit weird, bung it on the avant-garde list, nobody can topple our sainted heroes', absolutely sickening
― imago, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 09:31 (four years ago) link
meanwhile *looks at recent threads for inspiration* all fka twigs has to do is release a comeback single and bam in at the 25th best song of the decade. it's not even like ilmers were going crazy for it!
― imago, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 09:35 (four years ago) link
but fka twigs is Royalty you see
i think "cellophane" will do pretty well here too
― ufo, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 09:39 (four years ago) link
in our entire-decade poll (whenever that is)?
― imago, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 09:59 (four years ago) link
Yes but think of the k-pop.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 10:01 (four years ago) link
they snubbed k-pop for *this* list! too foreign, too weird
― imago, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 10:03 (four years ago) link
straight after the 2019 one I'm guessing :/
― nashwan, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 10:10 (four years ago) link
2025 at the earliest
― imago, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 10:11 (four years ago) link
I was being facetious, i.e.
P4k: *posts best-of list that deliberately disregards swathes upon swathes of less immediately popular genres*
ILM: *needs more poptimism*
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 10:11 (four years ago) link