The Replacements: Classic or Dud?

The interesting question to me is whether Westerberg needed all that bullshit to fuel him. Would a less chaotic band have given him anything to work with? Dude can barely sing, was a half-hearted punk with a classic rock jones, somehow was also a great songwriter, but I don't know if he would have discovered that in a more structured environment.

yeah the self-mythologizing is so central to his songs

The interesting question to me is whether Westerberg needed all that bullshit to fuel him.
Fuel him into writing "my heart could use some glasses"? Lol, I can't theorize about what if he had had a different band, seems like he was pretty chaotic/destructive/petulant, etc on his own

how clearly I remember the soul-crushing disappointment the first time I read the title "Dyslexic Heart", only to be followed shortly by the greater disappointment of actually hearing it

same
i will however continue to stand up for corny old "runaway wind"

i loved it when it came out, and it still makes me have a feeling. it's a corny and good song.

I can't theorize about what if he had had a different band, seems like he was pretty chaotic/destructive/petulant, etc on his own

I agree with that...I've only read the chapter from "Our Band could be your life", though I do have "Trouble boys" in my backlog. Anyway, haven't read that, my opinion is very possibly less informed, but considering the way Westerberg's solo career turned out, he surely was a big part of the problem. Weird stuff like the screwdriver hand injury seem like could only happen to him.

Oh he was definitely self-destructive on his own. I guess I mean I don't think he would have happened at all with a more together band. Like, I don't think there's an alternative universe version of the Replacements that's less dysfunctional.

In the alternative universe, he's just a fuckup at the bar playing bad cover versions and getting thrown out.

In the alternative universe, he's just a fuckup at the bar playing bad cover versions and getting thrown out.

isn't that pretty much how it worked in this universe?

he's just a fuckup at the bar playing bad cover versions and getting thrown out.

Aka that guy you or someone you know dated for 5 minutes

When I was learning how to play the guitar, I learned a lot of replacements songs and had this grand idea of getting together an all girl cover band that just played 'mats songs at weddings.

It's funny how at the time (on the cusp of fame/major label jump)... Soul Asylum was just this amazing, insanely captivating live band, basically everything that their crosstown rivals The Replacements were not. But flash forward 30 years and one band's legacy is a cult legend, and the other one is a punchline, if even that...

in random conversation, if you can somehow seamlessly insert "...we could build a factory and make misery..." it usually gets chuckles.

gettin through the epilogue. do ppl ever draw comparisons between All Shook Down and Third/Sister Lovers? Seems like an obvious parallel in a lot of ways, even if the latter is much better than the former.

The connection is Jim Dickinson salvaging the sessions for Pleased to Meet Me the way he did for Big Star, albeit less creatively.

xp:
Think you may be the first on that one, Shakey.

Right after I finished that book I probably spent more time than I should have listening to Paul - and Tommy!- solo projects.

Feeling that Soul Asylum comparison.

Did Jim Dickinson produce All Shook Down? Thought it was only Pleased To Meet Me.

this amazing, insanely captivating live band, basically everything that their crosstown rivals The Replacements were not

this is insane.

(re: the Replacements, SA were a great live band)

All the Mpls heads I know who were around back in the day if you asked who was the best live band would say "Soul Asylum", like not even a pause to think, even people I know who hated the 90s SA still talked about them like people talk about James Brown in the 60s

xpost No, I meant that Pleased to Meet Me has the Big Star connection, but not All Shook Down.

And yeah, Soul Asylum (and to an extent the Goo Goo Dolls!) had pretty great live reputations. And Buffalo Tom (who were nicknamed Dinosaur Jr Jr.).

my goodness, james brown?
that seems hyperbolic

buffalo tom's songs were so boring! where is all this hyperbole coming from?

I suppose there's at least one big difference that tilts the scale in favor of the Mats, and it's the songs.

agree. saw both, in Minneapolis, many times. Soul Asylum were amazing. but the Replacements where amazing and had better songs. best live band of the time for me, and not because of the mythologized f-ing up. only saw them go totally off the rails a couple times (along with a couple no shows ("gone fishing," "Tommy hurt himself mowing a lawn")), and a jazz musician friend who was with me at one of those, considers it the best rock show he's every seen.

Soul Asylum were always winning these "best live act" polls, or "best underground live act" polls or whatever. They got so boring (as did Buffalo) that people forget they were ever raucous live acts. Like, look at this Christgau Buffalo Tom review:

Big Red Letter Day [Beggars Banquet, 1993]
In which the purely horrendous Dinosaur Jr. clones of Birdbrain enlist the aid of reputed pop producers to reconfigure themselves as virtually mediocre Soul Asylum drones. Don't despair, children, the attempted J Mascis roar is still with us--augmented, as they say, by jangle, harmony, and the occasional tunelessly rendered tune. Does college radio really believe this is art and Janet Jackson isn't? C

Sure, he doesn't like it, but he even says they used to be Dino Jr clones and then goes on to compare them to SA. They were in that same mix.

Here's his review of the first SA, fwiw:

Made to Be Broken [Twin/Tone, 1986]
Unless the meaning of life is passing me by, Bob Mould's proteges are the latest concept band, admired more for their correct aesthetics than for how they actually sound (or what they actually say). Fast turmoil rools, with hints of metal anthem and country warmth sunk deep enough in the mix that nobody'll cry corny. As a concept, pretty admirable.B

Buffalo Tom love is baffling to me. I remember hearing "Soda Jerk" on the radio a lot, and seeing them on My So-Called Life (were high school kids into Buffalo Tom in 1994?), and figured faceless blandness/bland facelessness was apparently the new vitality.

(But I've only heard "Soda Jerk," so maybe that's not representative of what they do/did?)

I have no idea. I am honestly not sure I've heard them beyond the radio hit. same with sa. I just know they had their fans back in the day.

they are just straight up boring
i was given one of their albums as a gift and found it so dull that upon reflection i got slightly offended that it was given to me as an enlightening gift

it reminds me that i have rarely (never?) actively liked a band that people claim sound like the replacements. or husker du for that matter. i only like the real ones.

Does college radio really believe this is art and Janet Jackson isn't?

Maybe the only Christgau sentence I've ever agreed with.

I remember loving Made To Be Broken at the time, though I haven't listened to it in ages. I didn't keep up with them, and when I heard "Somebody To Shove" on the radio I thought, "Huh, they're still around?" followed immediately by involuntary retching at THE. BIG. 90S. DRUM. SOUND. CAN YOU HEAR THE DRUMS? THERE'S DRUMS ON THIS RECORD. WE'LL HAVE TO TURN THE DRUMS UP SO YOU CAN HEAR THE DRUMS ON THIS RECORD THAT HAS DRUMS ON IT.

Buffalo Tom were very boring. I would never compare them to Dinosaur Jr. More like The Connells with The Connells being much better.

Okay, I was much more of ‘Mats fan then an SA fan, so I wouldn’t say that SA was “better,” but “more consistent,” I guess, and not in a boring sense of consistency.

And lest we forget, the first Goo Goo Dolls song to get radio play was, iirc, "We are the Normal," which was a Westerberg write/co-write.

"muscular drumming" lol

it reminds me that i have rarely (never?) actively liked a band that people claim sound like the replacements. or husker du for that matter. i only like the real ones.

I share this feeling completely. Comparisons to the Replacements are a recipe for disaster.

I've never sought them out before, but here's a BT cut from their first album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT4Hn4ckt5I

Produced by Mascis, with lead guitar by Mascis. It's kinda like ... the Bodeans with fuzz?

"Somebody To Shove" is such a blatant Husker Du ripoff.

But yeah, I stand by my very small sample size of early-mid Soul Asylum live >>>>> early-mid Replacements live.

Buffalo Tom...I saw them open for MBV in 1992. Suffice to say the headliners were not troubled.

it reminds me that i have rarely (never?) actively liked a band that people claim sound like the replacements. or husker du for that matter. i only like the real ones.

xpost But see, the very fact they would even open for MBV reveals how they were perceived at the time.

Don’t think I ever saw any group with Buffalo in the name live, but I believe I preferred the recordings, including live ones, of Grant Lee Buffalo or their leader solo.

Re: Buffalo Tom— I like that Sunflower Suit song

I am now google imaging Dave Pirner's current hair situation.

unshampooed.

i can't imagine the lightning storm of privilege that led to the cheese curds in buffalo tom opening for MBV

And they were the middle band on the bill. The actual opener openers were Yo La Tengo.

I saw Buffalo Tom as one of the openers for The Lemonheads.

my not-liking bands that were compared to the replacements might have started with goo goo dolls!? i went to some radio showcase show my senior year of high school where they played and i was like ok let's see hopefully they're good
nope

yo la tengo and MBV sounds much more appealing

Lemonheads, another boring Boston band that once had a hip reputation!