Fogerty (J) took complete control of the band after the first album - songwriting, arrangements, production.
― Euripedes' Trousers (Tom D.), Saturday, 10 August 2019 18:24 (five years ago) link
Again, fwiw, Mountain played Woodstock, so hard rock (as such) existed but perhaps hadn't been codified/cordoned off as its own thing just yet. I bet early on Black Sabbath and Zep fans had more in common with hippies than not, and perhaps even had mostly hippie fans, but I get the impression that all rock was more or less treated as hard rock or acid rock or whatever. The distinct subdivisions hadn't yet bubbled out of the counter-culture stew. I also get the impression that compared to what was going on just a few years earlier, rock music was just starting to get really loud, as the venues got bigger and the bands demanded bigger and bigger amps and the only way to be heard at all was to crank shit up. When the Beatles played their final show in '66, they could barely hear themselves and the music was being amplified through the baseball park's in-house speakers. By the late '60s groups had PA systems designed for rock bands, and the bands (lead by the Who, Hendrix and Cream) were beginning to tote along much bigger systems on tour, which allowed hard rock bands to, er, rock harder.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 10 August 2019 18:36 (five years ago) link
The middle, falling in slow/fast motion bit of "Ramble Tamble" is Psych AND Heavy.
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 10 August 2019 18:37 (five years ago) link
Similarly, hindsight being 20//20, I bet the word "psychedelic' meant very little back then, too, relative to the type of music being played, other than the fact that the fans were all taking drugs. Likewise later with the broad "punk" label, as if Blondie, the Ramones, Talking Heads, Television or whomever in New York sounded the least bit alike. Psychedelic, punk ... I suspect they were labels assigned as much to the fan bases as to the bands themselves.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 10 August 2019 18:43 (five years ago) link
"Acid Rock" was a term thrown alot at the time, and not so much after.
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 10 August 2019 18:48 (five years ago) link
Also, speaking of Mountain appearing at Woodstock, Johnny Winter's trio that also appeared did real hard hjgh-energy stuff live.
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 10 August 2019 18:53 (five years ago) link
Yeah - I am thinking there were probably some blues acts that had probably been doing quite intense, one-chord hard jamming relentlessness for awhile, I'm just too much of a dumbass to know who they were. Stuff like Cream, Zep etc of course were very heavy but usually still oriented around the idea of a pop song. They do not, how does one say, choogle. 100% agreed that the Woodstock Chooglin could EASILY go another 10 minutes and it would still not be enough to suit me
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:03 (five years ago) link
Led Zeppelin were oriented around the idea of a pop song? Talking of Woodstock acts, Canned Heat, though never what you would call heavy, certainly did their fair share of one chord hard jamming relentlessness.
― Euripedes' Trousers (Tom D.), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:07 (five years ago) link
i will admit it is difficult to draw the lines. i guess I'm saying there is a TRANCE-LIKE element fused to the bluesiness that is produced by relentless repetition. there's an artiness to zeppelin, an archness to cream, a down-home folksiness to canned heat, but ccr, on these live tracks? they are so incredibly raw, and forward, and unstoppable. it still feels fresh to me somehow, like new music rather than some curio.
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:16 (five years ago) link
I do actively hate them. Dr. C OTM.
One song I will allow: The one about Lodi is at least moderately tolerable. That's the highest compliment I can pay, sorry.
― Fryin' Berry and Lon Jennon (Bimble...), Friday, June 2, 2006 5:23 PM (thirteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink
Ten years gone. I like to think he would have come around....
― The Ravishing of ROFL Stein (Hadrian VIII), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:20 (five years ago) link
Gothy stuff on the first album, plus a song later covered by Richard Hell.
― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:29 (five years ago) link
(xp) Ten years after. I think Bimble would still hate them!
― Euripedes' Trousers (Tom D.), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:31 (five years ago) link
Funnily enough, I work with a guy who is an insane record collector and music nut and he doesn't like CCR, he thinks it's just blues rock, like Canned Heat.
― Euripedes' Trousers (Tom D.), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:34 (five years ago) link
I told him to listen to "Ramble Tamble" and he skipped through it in about 15 seconds and said, "Nah, it's just not my thing".
― Euripedes' Trousers (Tom D.), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:35 (five years ago) link
I learned last night that a good friend of mine doesn't like CCR. He doesn't like Fogerty's voice!
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:38 (five years ago) link
I think his voice can be a sticking point for some people.
― Euripedes' Trousers (Tom D.), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:46 (five years ago) link
shum people
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:47 (five years ago) link
I mean you sort of have to wonder if it's more the affect/schtick than the actual voice that would put someone off
on that note I am loving this so much but btw songs Fogerty really leans into the grizzled bluesman banter, p cringeworthy
― The Ravishing of ROFL Stein (Hadrian VIII), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:47 (five years ago) link
It’s the same for me — I like his solo Fogerty stuff, but somehow his voice / singing style on the CCR material is a turnoff. (I wasn’t gonna bust into this thread and mention it, but now that the point’s been raised...)
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:57 (five years ago) link
dead to me
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 10 August 2019 19:57 (five years ago) link
Underrated aero also a noted CCR hater
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:00 (five years ago) link
Who’d have thought?
― Another Fule Clickin’ In Your POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:01 (five years ago) link
itt: realizing that even ccr is vulnerable to subjectivity
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:08 (five years ago) link
i'm still coming to terms
I've gone through that too. First time I met someone who hated the Beatles. First time I met someone who hated Led Zeppelin. After those two perplexing events, I had actually decided that Creedence was the only band ever that was a safe haven. Then I learned (possible via ILM) that people hate CCR too. I'm completely adrift now.
― clemenza, Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:16 (five years ago) link
Trying to come up with some portmanteau of “choogle” and “challops” but coming up short.
― Another Fule Clickin’ In Your POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:17 (five years ago) link
Thank god there’s never been a single consensus artist on ILM
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:19 (five years ago) link
like his solo Fogerty stuff,
his vocals are worse solo!
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:20 (five years ago) link
― Οὖτις,
Fairly certain Al Green and Stevie Wonder come closest.
i've never heard anyone say they didn't like kraftwerk, but that might be because they don't want to break my fragile heart
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:22 (five years ago) link
Kraftwerk is easy to be indifferent to.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:22 (five years ago) link
/ like his solo Fogerty stuff,/his vocals are worse solo!
― Another Fule Clickin’ In Your POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:22 (five years ago) link
his vocals are worse solo!I feel like he “grew into them” or something, idk. Centerfield was a big album for me as a kid, so I may be biased toward it for that reason.
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:23 (five years ago) link
Old Man Down the Road > Run Thru the Jungle ;)
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:24 (five years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/VoVVOuJ.gif
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:25 (five years ago) link
^^^ Lord Sotosyn-esque contrarianism. I approve.
Buy me a drink, hon.
xpost
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:26 (five years ago) link
Doesn’t it have a song that is basically a rewrite of a Creedence song? “The Old Man Down The Road” being a rewrite of “Green River,” I think.
― Another Fule Clickin’ In Your POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:26 (five years ago) link
Nope -- "Run Through the Jungle," for which Fogerty got sued.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:27 (five years ago) link
for plagiarizing himself
he doesn't like CCR, he thinks it's just blues rock, like Canned Heat.
― je est un autre, l'enfer c'est les autres (alex in mainhattan), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:29 (five years ago) link
― Another Fule Clickin’ In Your POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:31 (five years ago) link
Buy me a drink, hon.With pleasure! Holler if you’re ever in the L.A. area
― 60... 90... 120 Minute IPA (morrisp), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:35 (five years ago) link
Zaentz can't dance.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:36 (five years ago) link
Exactly
― Another Fule Clickin’ In Your POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:36 (five years ago) link
Seem to recall John complaining about Tom am telling him, perhaps during a deathbed non-conversion, “Saul Zaentz is my best friend.”
― Another Fule Clickin’ In Your POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:37 (five years ago) link
let him listen to effigy. at least he will drop that stupid comparison after
I don't think he would. To be honest, I think there was a bit of tit-for-tat going on because I'd shown insufficient interest in his plan for phoning up Edgar Broughton and meeting him for a chat.
― Euripedes' Trousers (Tom D.), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:51 (five years ago) link
the only good plan
― mark s, Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:54 (five years ago) link
Edgar, apparently a very friendly chap, always up for a natter.
― Euripedes' Trousers (Tom D.), Saturday, 10 August 2019 20:57 (five years ago) link
I am aware that there is a TolstoyesqueNabokovianILX0rite tendency to say "All Heavy Music Is Alike" but it seems to me that the other acts cited here were mostly playing heavier music still primarily using Blues-based riffs and scales- following the trend of Rural Blues is not as loud as (Chicago)Electric Blues is not as loud as Blue Men Sing The Whites- perhaps mixed in with some other scales from popular or classical music (Harmonic Minor to thread!), whereas the kind of outside/atonal shredding over motorik beat of the Velvets and this live album are another beast from a different kitchen altogether.
― Another Fule Clickin’ In Your POLL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 10 August 2019 21:14 (five years ago) link
What helps Fogerty's vocals go down easier is noticing how much young Fogerty looked like young (pre-gray hair) Steve Martin. They even make some of the same slack-jawed-yokel facial expressions.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Saturday, 10 August 2019 21:18 (five years ago) link