The Replacements: Classic or Dud?

ums otm throughout thread, esp his um, take, on Stink.

“Can’t Hardly Wait” always seemed to be Sacrificial Victim A on the altar of the Nu-‘Mats.

was always such a magic song live and then when Pleased to Meet Me came out it didn't have it (much as I love that record).

Yeah, exactly

in the dark days before Napster/etc I knew of the Replacements by reputation, and saw Tim on CD for cheap so bought it having never heard a note by them before, and did not get it at all, thought it was shit and sold it on. I was expecting raucous punk rock and it did not deliver. of course later I heard Sorry Ma and that was what I was expecting the Replacements to sound like. I have since then listened to most of their later stuff and I think mostly in chronological order, and that allowed me to "get" Tim a bit more. I still think the production is bad though

(xxxp) "dose of thunder," in all its unfinished kiss wannabe glory, is a kinda perfect distillation of who they were.

to me it feels like a half hearted attempt to be a band they used to be

the version of 'Can't Hardly Wait' on The Shit Hits The Fans is worth seeking out if you haven't heard it.

If you have problems with every one of their records (and love parts of every one of them), I'll again heartily recommend a compilation I mentioned earlier in this thread:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_You_Know_Who_I_Think_I_Was%3F

For me, they get it almost exactly right ("Johnny's Gonna Die" is missing, maybe one or two others I'd want on there), and there's also a great extra song, "Pool and Dive."

the version of 'Can't Hardly Wait' on The Shit Hits The Fans is worth seeking out if you haven't heard it.

I was really impressed at the time that they were the band most loved by writers at the Village Voice in the 80s. I still like them

Pretty sure that'd be R.E.M. if you went by Pazz & Jop--you'd also have to check Husker Du, Sonic Youth, etc. I don't think Public Enemy or any hip-hop band had enough albums to compete.

i like basically every track on tim, but i do kinda wish there were a version with less muddy production

I loved that P&J represented Husker Du, Sonic Youth, REM, etc, but it seemed at the time like the VV really had a thing for the Mats

(xpost) Retirement leaves me lots of time to do important work like this.

Pazz & Jop points, '80s (albums only, and only those in the Top 40):

R.E.M. - 986 + 793 + 526 + 433 + 420 + 129 = 3,287
Replacements - 158 + 937 + 865 + 846 + 290 = 3,096
Husker Du - 658 + 535 + 457 + 372 + 350 = 2,372
Sonic Youth - 186 + 313 + 716 = 1,215

R.E.M. had more total points, but I think you're right in an important way: three times the Replacements finished ahead of R.E.M. in the same year.

I refuse--refuse--to check U2.

Live at Maxwell's presents so much of their best material without any of the Sire albums production choices. Should have been officially released years ago, could have been canonical like 1969: The Velvet Underground Live

Yes. Was just listening to that particular version of “Can’t Hardly Wait” after the discussion earlier.

That riff is exciting when one of the guitars playing it or playing off it is played by Bob Stinson, kind of boring in any other hands.

Yes.

Bob is on the right channel on that particular version, from what I can hear.

The actual solo break is played on the other channel but the riffage and fills on the right sound more like Bob.

i like basically every track on tim, but i do kinda wish there were a version with less muddy production

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, August 1, 2019 8:23 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I never thought of the production on Tim as muddy...if anything, it's a precursor to the reverb-drenched DTAS (compare "Here Comes A Regular" with "Rock & Roll Ghost"...or "Little Mascara" to "Anywhere's Better Than Here"). One reason DTAS' production didn't seem super-jarring at the time was that Tim and PTMM softened up Replacements fans for it. Tim was the first 'mats record where my immediate reaction to the production was, "Well, look at you! Mr. Professional Recording Band on a major label with the big reverb sound!"

(Fortunately, said production hasn't dated nearly as poorly as that of DTAS.)

I'm really surprised that there's never been one of those big song polls for them (could've sworn there was) ... Someone should do that.

OTM!

This version of "Achin' To Be" seems to be an improvement upon first listen.

Also wondering if Paul and Juliana Hatfield ever duetted on “Temptation Eyes.”

Barreling through Trouble Boys, christ this is depressing.

it's kind of staggering how the band famous for being fucked up and dysfunctional is even more fucked up and dysfunctional than you could have imagined

yeah, it's v compelling and a great read but yeesh. La Lechera's take itt most closely mirrors my own, I think.

I still keep going back to the I Don't Cares album, it's gotta be the best thing Westerberg's done since Pleased To Meet Me. The peaks on that album really nail it on all the strengths that made the Replacements great.

one of the most striking things about their general fucked-upness/dysfunction/assholery is how fortuitous their timing was. They came up at a time when there was a burgeoning underground cottage industry that could hype them up and sustain them and then pass them on to a major label systems that was simultaneously printing and burning money. Imagine them coming up in the 2000s, they wouldn't have made it past one record.

they always seemed to find people that genuinely believed in them, who they never failed to let down

Imagine them coming up in the 2000s, they wouldn't have made it past one record.

Or earlier than that. Would they have been an on-and-off band like Big Star?

Maybe not, there seemed to be a real bond between the 4 mats. But I'm not sure they would have been together for as long as they were in the 80s.

In the 90's, they may have been Pavement.

pavement were careerist pros compared to the mats

yeah seems unlikely that Matador would indulge the Mats combative bullshit but eh idk.

if they'd come up slightly later they *might* have been able to pull off a Royal Trux-type career

but even there, prickly as they can be Neil and Jennifer are/were two relative workaholics

pavement were careerist pros compared to the mats

Yeah, absolutely. To me Pavement did inherit that "straddle the line between comedy and tragedy" thing, but they had more of a head on their shoulders, you'd even say they were shrewder.

Pavement were sloppy and confrontational in their way, but the 'Mats were downright destructive both to themselves and to everything around them. I mean just consider how much $$$ they cost their label with their grade school bullshit.

for guys that repeatedly professed a fear of ending up as janitors, they sure didn't seem to have much sympathy or awareness of all the people that must've had to clean up after their rampaging destructive nonsense

maybe that was all just self-loathing "shit, I'd sure hate to have to clean up after ME!"

The interesting question to me is whether Westerberg needed all that bullshit to fuel him. Would a less chaotic band have given him anything to work with? Dude can barely sing, was a half-hearted punk with a classic rock jones, somehow was also a great songwriter, but I don't know if he would have discovered that in a more structured environment.

yeah the self-mythologizing is so central to his songs

The interesting question to me is whether Westerberg needed all that bullshit to fuel him.
Fuel him into writing "my heart could use some glasses"? Lol, I can't theorize about what if he had had a different band, seems like he was pretty chaotic/destructive/petulant, etc on his own

how clearly I remember the soul-crushing disappointment the first time I read the title "Dyslexic Heart", only to be followed shortly by the greater disappointment of actually hearing it

same
i will however continue to stand up for corny old "runaway wind"

i loved it when it came out, and it still makes me have a feeling. it's a corny and good song.

I can't theorize about what if he had had a different band, seems like he was pretty chaotic/destructive/petulant, etc on his own

I agree with that...I've only read the chapter from "Our Band could be your life", though I do have "Trouble boys" in my backlog. Anyway, haven't read that, my opinion is very possibly less informed, but considering the way Westerberg's solo career turned out, he surely was a big part of the problem. Weird stuff like the screwdriver hand injury seem like could only happen to him.

Oh he was definitely self-destructive on his own. I guess I mean I don't think he would have happened at all with a more together band. Like, I don't think there's an alternative universe version of the Replacements that's less dysfunctional.

In the alternative universe, he's just a fuckup at the bar playing bad cover versions and getting thrown out.

In the alternative universe, he's just a fuckup at the bar playing bad cover versions and getting thrown out.

isn't that pretty much how it worked in this universe?