Which artists legacies have improved/worsened during the 2010s?

c'mon dude I'm one of the biggest Fall fans here and I am in total agreement with sic's assessment here

read Brix's autobio for more awful details

I haven't read it, that's why I'm asking. I'm aware he could be a "bully" at times, and I know about the 1998 incident, but I've never heard of "consistently dangerous work conditions" or spousal abuse.

Brix herself didn't seem to find him "irredeemable": https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-falls-brix-smith-mark-e-smith-defied-convention-and-definition-202911/

the spousal abuse is well known and was touched on in most obituaries. to be more clear: he just generally was known to be physically violent to people around him including spouses, friends and bandmates

i don't necess agree this makes him irredeemable but quite an unsympathetic character in many ways clearly

Absolute dogshit opinion

― space invaders are smokin penises!!!! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, July 10, 2019 2:20 PM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Going to argue “I liked korn when they were underground” abt a band that thrived mallcore era is actually the dogshit opinion

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, July 10, 2019 3:33 PM (forty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

They had a platinum record when Carson Daly was still a KROQ DJ, dogg

xp
I skimmed the below obits; none seem to detail abuse beyond the 1998 arrest. If that's what the assessment hinges on, then fair enough, but that doesn't seem to be what you're saying. I agree he's not the most sympathetic character, but "very nearly irredeemable as a human being" is quite an assessment.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/jan/24/mark-e-smith-obituary
https://www.nme.com/blogs/nme-blogs/mark-e-smith-obituary-the-fall-2227837
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/mark-e-smith-prolific-singer-of-post-punk-group-the-fall-dead-at-60-201853/
https://pitchfork.com/news/the-falls-mark-e-smith-dead-at-60/
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/obituaries/mark-e-smith-of-the-fall-dies.html

In my world of young people (ie ppl at the basketball courts), Tupac is one of the only pre-2000 rappers they fuck with. I also have heard Redman & WuTang come up on their playlists.

xp. hmm, generally surprises me that they shied away from it so much in the obits. there were definitely more critical pieces around after his death.

is Mark E Smith less redeemable than, say, John Lennon

Or Lou Reed.

yes imo, all squarely in the "almost irredeemable" category with emphasis on the "almost"

Jim - have you read Steve Hanley's book?

Or GG Allin.

2xp

i like how I'm the one being asked to defend calling him irredeemable when it wasn't me who said that

I’m not asking you to defend it (for the record!)

(“One more time for the record...”)

he infamously treated everyone under him (bandmates, sound engineers, roadies, etc.) like dogshit, not only being physically abusive but also prone to firing guys on a whim and leaving them stranded thousands of miles from home. I remember one ex-bandmate talking about lasting psychological damage, how Smith really did convince you that you weren't good enough to work in the music biz, and I suspect there were many others. obviously none of that changes the fact that he was brilliant himself and influenced a lot of great stuff...but yeah...as a human being...

exactly, see also:

https://www.amazon.com/Fallen-Life-Britains-Insane-Group/dp/1847671446

Beastie Boys definitely an example of even death not able to stop the critical decline.

? idk anybody that's revised their opinion downward of their classic era. that Beastie Boys Book seemed to do pretty well.

Yeah I thought that the Beasties were universally loved now

beastie boys are loved but are they "relevant" in 2019?

nothing is relevant

^^^^ speaking as someone deeply unaware of current trends I support this premise

well they refuse to go on without Yauch and won't license out any of their music out so how 'relevant' can it they be now really

sure their influence has diminished in the last couple decades but most of that shouty/quirky rap stuff sucked anyway

current trends = also not relevant

well using a sui generis definition of relevant you've just made up sure.

beastie boys right now feel like the andrew sisters would've felt to someone during the summer of love. sure they're famous and a beloved act for people of a certain vintage, but do they mean anything to mainstream pop (youth) culture? no

i mean this stuff isn't just nostalgia-popular its actively Cool for zoomers & young millennials

― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, July 10, 2019

In Scotland it was certainly all the zoomers that were into nu-metal.

there is no such thing as mainstream pop (youth) culture

everything is just a niche now, capable of being completely cordoned off from other niches. some niches are larger than others, but none has a claim to being monolithic.

^not a youth

https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/drake.jpg?quality=100&w=650

https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/post-malone-2.jpg?quality=100&w=650

I am around a lot of youths

world of young ppl etc

lol fair enough

if there's a gap in my youth knowledge it's the 18-21 demo, but I can claim a fair amount of exposure to teens/tweens and fresh-out-of-college folks

i got in a car for the first time w/a 24-25 yr old guy i worked with and he was listening to....the Doobie Brothers! but he was home schooled in Indiana so

henlo i teach HS seniors, drake and postie are v v popular

as those Spotify figures posted hours ago show, the top twenty would not shock a record company dude 20 years ago The Big Ones (Beatles, Eagles, Phil Collins, Stones, etc) remain big, deserved Big Ones have caught up (Queen), a few young turks, etc

it's prob a topic for another thread, but my feeling is that there's much less of a monolithic youth culture now than throughout the 2nd 1/2 of the 20th century but it still exists to some degree.

the only monolith is that the fucking Beatles remain a touchstone

I work at a university,most of the youngs are normie and listen to the big acts you'd expect drake etc. Compared go when I was at university there's also less specific subcultural ways of dressing

just going from my own experience, there's a lot MORE monolithicosity between races/ethnicities/cliques. EVERYONE listens to hiphop now. Everyone listens to rnb. Everyone listens to pop. And nobody listens to rock lol. Maybe I need to hang around the few kids I see who dress like goths.

the 20 yr old I really liked who was in town for drug rehab had on a Nirvana shirt and that was 1st time I saw a younging wearing something like that. But when there was the goofy in-car sing along to Adele, he joined in too!

the the post malone/swae lee song from spiderverse is really good

there's also less specific subcultural ways of dressing

agree this is very striking. youth subcultures no longer subdivide along aesthetic lines, to a large extent, which is really weird to someone who grew up being able to tell what people were into based on how they dressed.

the hegemony of streetwear

^^ my memoir title

Oh yeah, musically the Beastie Boys have less influence/relevance than ever, for sure. But I think there are other aspects that have aged well (their style, woke Yauch, their videos, etc), and they're generally beloved elder statesmen in their retirement.

There's really nowhere to go but down for REM if you think about it-their correction seems almost inevitable.