The Byrds: Classic Or Dud

I found a bootleg 7" credited to the Beefeaters that must've been released before Ladyfriend showed up on the Younger Than Yesterday CD that featured the song but the quality was so bad and distorted that it was totally fuzzed out, sounded like the Sonics. It's actually pretty awesome. I agree though, it's one of my favorite songs. That and Why are two of my fave Byrds songs, which is funny because when Crosby was being more of a hippie he wrote some of my least favorite Byrds songs.

I will have to defend Clark's solo career though! With the Godsin Brothers/Echoes is just amazing Beatles meets proto-country rock and everything after that is pretty essential folk-rock/country-rock/singer-songwriter stuff. The guy never wrote a bad song.

"in retrospect, the Byrds seem to have made a string of albums more consistent that anyone's except the Stones'. Mr. Tambourine Man, Turn! Turn!, 5D, Younger than Yesterday...."

not sure of the chronology of their discography, but Dr. Byrds & Mr. Hyde is another classic Byrds disc, fwiw

notoroius byrd brothers ain't nuthin' to fuck wit either!

I will have to defend Clark's solo career though!

Me too. I don't think he hit his stride until after Gosdin Bros/Echoes. The first Dillard & Clark LP is perfect, as is White Light and No Other. Clark was the soul of the Byrds -- even when he wasn't in the band.

Roadmaster, too.

gene clark & the gosdin bros. is amazing too!

even with it's Paul rip-offs. That record and Emmit Rhodes first are the great Paul Mcartney solo record that never was.

The Byrds are one of those bands whose records I found stunning on first listen, but didn't feel the urge to go back to a lot. It's kind of like you know you're never going to recapture the rush of first exposure. Also they're structurally often quite weak (e.g. Draft Morning offers so much more than it eventually delivers).

Cocteau Twins are in the same bracket for me. Classic but with obvious flaws.

the chronology I had is accurate. Notorious and Sweetheart are both '68. Then it's Ballad of Easy Rider, which is fairly weak but has some great White guitar. Dr. Byrds is after that, and then I think it's Untitled. Then, Byrdmaniax, which is fairly lousy. I don't agree that Gene Clark was the heart and soul of the Byrds, though. That would be McGuinn. Not to say that I don't love Gene Clark and think the band was worse off without him. So, maybe he was the soul of the band but not the heart...

he was saying HE wasn't sure of the chronology and where Dr. Byrds fit in.

x-post

your chronology isn't correct.

Dr. Byrds comes before Easy Rider

I don't agree that Gene Clark was the heart and soul of the Byrds, though.

We actually agree, because I never said Clark was the heart and soul of the band. I said he was the soul of the band. see my post above.

Unfortunately, he wasn't the liver of the band.

...nor the afro.

The debut was nice, "Turn! Turn! Turn!" less so, "Fifth Dimension" was better again, while the next three were all Classics!

Please forgive me if I play Ole Wagamama for a second and use this thread to peddle my pet theory that The Notorious Byrd Bros was the first shoegazer album.

yeah, I didn't realize Dr. Byrds came before Easy Rider. I'm a big Gene Clark fan who wishes the records were sometimes a bit more...rigorous...which is what the Byrds (McGuinn) were good at.

That's interesting: Notorious as first shoegazer record. I always thought it was just a post-dope record made by dopers who weren't getting along; and I mean in the US, do people use the term "shoegazer"? But I know what you mean. Greil Marcus got it right: Notorious was a record of the '60s' "secret remorse." Which seems more to the point.

I'm a big Gene Clark fan who wishes the records were sometimes a bit more...rigorous...which is what the Byrds (McGuinn) were good at.

I'm not sure what "rigorous" means, but Clark's No Other seems like the space-country epic that McGuinn always wanted to the Byrds make. I love the epic/song cycle qualities of Notorious; it's one of my favorite albums, but I don't think McGuinn made anything quite as rigorous as No Other.

Someone upthread mentioned live stuff from the later-period Byrds. I've been listening to that lately. It's pretty damn amazing. I love the metamorphosis of "Eight Miles High" into a kind of Dead/Allmans acid-country-jazz jam.

Michael Clarke's real name was Michael Dick
discuss

anybody read that 33 1/3 book on Notorious ??

That book is frustrating but has some good parts.

"Jamaica Say You Will", Clarence White on vocals. Immaculate.

White did a version where he sang lead? what's that on?

But what group ever did a better two-minute song than "So You Want to Be a Rock 'n' Roll Star"? the Box Tops?

Lots, Edd, Jesus!! Like at least two hundred garage bands from the same period. And every British Invasion group!

By the way, I got the "Eight Miles High" 45 the other day with the other version of "Why" on the flipside, which is rocking!

"Goin' Back" rules!

By the way, I got the "Eight Miles High" 45 the other day with the other version of "Why" on the flipside, which is rocking!

Indeed. It blows away the LP version.

That version is on the expanded CD of Fifth Dimension. It's great but I think I'm partial to the LP version.

BOTH ARE NICE

i'm spinning both back to back, and damn, it's closer than I remember. I like the slower groove and raw vibe of the single. But the LP version has fuzz, static, and raga guitar that totally soar.

I read Menck's NBB book album last month. It's frankly kinda clumsily written, although to be fair it's likely more poorly edited (error on the very first page!) But as a tight primer of the whole Byrds backstory, it's valuable -- despite being one of my favorite bands, I'd never really read a history. And there are nice little insights along the way that keep you reading.

I don't hear any friggin "shoegaze" on NBB tho, sorry. One of the great albums ever, absolutely. Reading the book made me relisten to their catalog from start to finish -- the same way I discovered it when those CD reissues came out in the late 90s -- and they blew my mind all over again.

They were a band I'd never really explored and when those reissues first came out, I very deliberately picked them up in chrological order, a new one every six months or so, almost trying to replicate the experience of the original records, anticipating each new release and so on. lots of fun! But the greatest surprise was NBB, which I came to with no expectations -- all I knew was that it was the first one in line that had no recognizable songs that I knew from the radio. And also that the cover seemed sort of dull and generic. Nothing against horses mind you -- I'm a big fan! I think it was the font. one of the best albums ever, obv., same with 'Sweetheart.' It was 'Dr. Byrds' that was a bummer, not that it was BAD, it just really did not reach the heights anymore. It felt like something died at that point.

dr. byrds is very strange, but really not that bad. i like the way john york's voice sounds in harmony with mcguinn, too bad he didn't stick around (esp. considering the crap skip battin was responsible for after he replaced york)

I guess I hate the way it opens with that ponderous annoying version of "Wheel's On Fire", and, like, it's the end of the string of six breathtaking albums in a row. It just always scans as a little sad to me, for those reasons. Not that I don't get up and smiley for "Old Blue" or whatever, but the album really represented the end of something amazing.

Coincidentally enough I'm spinning the first McGuinn solo album, which I just got yesterday, right now. Byrds reunion on the second track! I had no idea. Nice little cut (Charles Lloyd in tow as well.) and "Time Cube" is kinda a "Space Odyssey" reprise (just ROger & moog). but oof, these lyrics -- who the heck was Jacques Levy, am I supposed to know who he was? the name sounds way familiar.

also that ridiculous filler medley at the end of Dr. -- really depressing

yeah the last track sux but that was a byrd tradition. i like this wheel's on fire but apparently clarence white hated that version, his preferred take showed up on the reissue. bob johnston did a very poor job on that record, they SOOOOOOOO missed gary usher at that point

Lots, Edd, Jesus!! Like at least two hundred garage bands from the same period. And every British Invasion group!

see, I don't subscribe to this ethic. garage bands are overrated, and not as good as the Byrds. every British Invasion group? Like the Tremeloes or the Marmalade or what? you mean the Sonics or who? the point is, the Byrds' "So You Want to Be" is a comment on the whole fucking thing, by people who had thought about it for more than ten minutes, which the aforementioned "garage bands" had not, that's why they were just some garage band and not the Byrds. and yeah, Michael Clarke belonged in a garage band but ended up in the Byrds--a tribute to their conceptualism. sometimes thinking helps, even in rock 'n' roll, Tim.

edd wins

Stormy, you prob know Jacques Levy as the guy who wrote the lyrics on 'Desire' by Bob Dylan.

I've not (yet) read the Menck volume, but wld like to put in a gd word for "Timeless Flight" by Johnny Rogan (esp. the massive expanded version.) Rogan isn't a great stylist/thinker, but his research is awesome and over twenty years he pretty much spoke to every one of the major Byrds players - an essential companion to the recs

i love 'so you want to be a rock'n'roll star' - hugh masakela = the masterstroke = but it has to be one of the v. earliest examples of pure unadulterated rockist disdain for 'manufactured' pop (and just a little bit rich coming from the Byrds, who after all mostly didn't play on their first hit single and cld be said to be sort've a Jim Dickinson supergroup)

I can't say enough about "Eight Miles High" - how unthinkable was it for a '66 single to have THREE extnded guitar breaks, each one extending out from that 4-note "India" head and yet really sounding more chatotic than the previous one - sounding like no previous solo on any single I've ever heard, certinaly not any played on electric 12-string, aside from maybe Townshend in "I Cant Explain". Even the fact that McGuinn actually played at a slower speed and sped it up to make it shimmer a bit more is worth noting. An incredible recording. I know the hipsters prefer the original, and I like that one a lot too, but it's the single version that stays with me. I suspect that someone other than Michael Clarke played on that classic take.

As for the "shoegaze" question, I remember somebody-or-other claimed that My Bloody Valentine were continuing in a continuum that extended from the Byrds through to Sonic Youth, or the equivalent. That from one of the clippings reproduced in their '88 Feed Me With Your Kiss sampler. And certainly Byrds and showgazers alique were both fond of guitars that jingle-jangle-jingle.

Edd otm re: Gene Clark with the Gosdin Brothers. "Elevator Operator" is the best Revolver outtake ever.

showgazers alique

WTF?! Dunno where that came from...If that was some arcane joke, it hasn't aged well, or at all.

who the heck was Jacques Levy, am I supposed to know who he was? the name sounds way familiar.

-- Stormy Davis,

Co-writer of most of Dylan's Desire.

you don't miss your water till your well runs dry

I think the Byrds are only alright. Some very good songs, but a lot of duffers, and I can only take so much of that nicey vocal harmony stuff.

die

The production on "You Don't Mis Your Water" is really quite trippy -- the way that the vocals bleed across the front of the sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9cINH9yob4

some tasty licks there...and some sweet beards

I never quite understood what he intended to do with the horse once he caught it.

feel like someone on ILM recommended it on another Byrds thread, but that Live At Royal Albert Hall thing that came out a few years back is incredible. Better than Untitled!