17 Indie Artists on Their Oddest Odd Jobs That Pay the Bills When Music Doesn’t (not a poll)

We are the dollars and cents and the *pounds and pence

(*the post decimalization pound, of course)

this discussion actually felt pretty constructive before all the snark

more Simpsons references please, my sides are seriously splitting

I agree, but y'know what this place is like, some folks just can't help themselves.

Odyssey & Oracle is a better sounding record than Sgt. Pepper

I agree that it sounds better, even if the production isn't as ambitious. Of course, Geoff Emerick engineered both records, and having literally just come off the Sgt. Pepper's sessions then he would have been the best person to dial up a great sound quickly having already done the painstaking experimental work with The Beatles.

some folks just can't help themselves.

We noticed.

^ See what I mean?

Not been 51'd yet?

this thread has taken some weird fuckin turns since the last time i checked in

I've learned a lot.

a sterling example of ilx at its best

Like solar eclipses, such threads only occur once every 18 months on average.

All I’m reading is divergent opinions being discussed, interrupted by people being shitty to Turrican for having different opinions

It seems like people are primarily responding to his past transgressions, of which I'm not really aware, as we tend not to haunt the same threads.

he has a really obnoxious way of expressing himself, however, i must be the problem

he also tends to derail discussions into their most awful forms possible, which is guess is also a case of divergent opinions being discussed so fine

glad turrican is here he's bringing so much to the table

"different opinions" meaning "alternative facts", or maybe just "talking bullshit"

some things are either true or false, whether the British pound changed value on decimalisation is not really up for debate

i am really tired of making this case so i will stop if y'all think he's fine or whatever

No I'm pretty sure most of us think he's a turrible cant

I used to not quite get why he bugged ppl so much — then I “snapped” and lost my cool recently, so now I just ignore him.

17 Indie Artists on Their Oddest Odd Jobs That Pay the Bills When Music Doesn’t (yet another poll about noted ILM user Turrican)

trying to decide which of these tedious topics are the worst: production cost of "classic" albums, the importance and quality of "classic albums," Turrican's posting

so, for all the other countries where musicians get government money for being musicians, are there rules and/or a process whereby one gets to call themselves a musician?

There'd be no problen with Turrican if he could handle the fact that people might not agree with everything he says and that they are going to pull him up on things he gets wrong - and if he dropped the obnoxious attitude when they do.

he has a really obnoxious way of expressing himself, however, i must be the problem

― american bradass (BradNelson), Monday, April 15, 2019 3:05 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag PostPermalink

While we're on the subject of expressing oneself obnoxiously, it's worth pointing out this point that only one of the two of us has called the other a "shithead" or "huge dumbass" over the last few months, and it certainly wasn't me to you.

There'd be no problen with Turrican if he could handle the fact that people might not agree with everything he says and that they are going to pull him up on things he gets wrong - and if he dropped the obnoxious attitude when they do.

― Do you like 70s hard rock with a guitar hero? (Tom D.),Monday, April 15, 2019 3:30 PM (twenty-five seconds ago)Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

In the case of this particular thread - and others - I'd say it was the other way 'round.

trying to decide which of these tedious topics are the worst: production cost of "classic" albums, the importance and quality of "classic albums," Turrican's posting

The first two seem like reasonable topics for a music message board imo?

I tend to agree with fgti/pomenitul that, while I disagree with some of Turrican's opinions itt, and think some of what he's saying is wrong, he doesn't really deserve to be piled on.

All I’m reading is divergent opinions being discussed, interrupted by people being shitty to Turrican for having different opinions

― flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, April 15, 2019 3:01 PM (thirty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes, this is pretty much OTM, really. Also, my patience only runs so far so when people are being shitty to me for this reason, they shouldn't then find themselves surprised when I eventually snap and be shitty back. Of course, naturally I'd rather not do this and would rather stay on topic, but here we are!

Thanks Sund4r :)

Have you never wondered why otherwise mild mannered posters get into shouting matches with the guy?

I've no idea who you're referring to there, but if that's the case then perhaps they're not actually that mild-mannered.

And can we get back on topic?

While we're on the subject of expressing oneself obnoxiously, it's worth pointing out this point that only one of the two of us has called the other a "shithead" or "huge dumbass" over the last few months, and it certainly wasn't me to you.

― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Monday, April 15, 2019 8:30 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

all right, i'm out, enjoy turrican everyone

Maybe not, but then I don't see them butting heads with too many other people. (xxp)

so, for all the other countries where musicians get government money for being musicians, are there rules and/or a process whereby one gets to call themselves a musician?

At least in Canada, you submit applications for grants for projects and a committee decides whether you get the grant. (You can apply to get your living costs covered at a subsistence level while you are working on these projects.) I think this happens in the US too, just less often. Idk if there are countries where you can get paid just for calling yourself a musician.

The first two seem like reasonable topics for a music message board imo?

reasonable, yes. Boring and discussed to death in countless other threads, also yes.

you submit applications for grants for projects and a committee decides whether you get the grant. (You can apply to get your living costs covered at a subsistence level while you are working on these projects.) I think this happens in the US too, just less often

this does happen in the US, at federal, state, and local levels. ... i used to write grants for a living.

It is a well-known fact that every music forum eventually turns into Steve Hoffman.

Permaban ILM.

I'd be really interested in finding out how US granting systems work... I kind of just assumed there weren't any? beyond grants for institutions? In Canada there are several different bodies, both regional and national, that assist for different things. It's not quite as generous as it was 2000-2010 but most musicians I know depend upon it. Certain bodies are about supporting emerging artists/under-privileged artists, and other bodies are about stimulating a music-oriented economy-- Starmaker in particular is geared toward stimulating artists who've already got their fanbase and so on, to try and take a band at Alvvays's level and get them up to Metric's level or what-have-you

I was listening to Weyes Blood this morning and that's a very classic sounding album! I don't think it's a classic album by any means but it sounds amazing, regardless of how much it cost to make

xp I didn't say creating art is a waste?

I'm only speaking for people who expect some form of return on the investments I listed, in hopes that their hard work will reach people outside of their immediate network.

Creating for self-satisfaction or for the journey and experience of creation is its own separate reward. I should have clarified I wasn't referring to that.

Frankly surprised that the "lesser" cities of the Midwest aren't more sought-out as "liveable places for musicians". Madison, Milwaukee, Minneapolis and Iowa City all seem like lovely places!!

I'm curious if you mean as a home base for someone who already has a recording/touring career, or as a place to actively make a living?

Madison is getting increasingly expensive unfortunately, but Milwaukee can still be very cheap. I do know musicians who only do music here and in Minneapolis, but it's a constant hustle of course (and everyone has some combination of teaching/gigging/touring and recording revenue in some rare cases).

Milwaukee is gorgeous. I don't know anything about music scenes in those cities, I have a friend who lives and works in Madison and I've read that Iowa City has a good noise scene

Currently in Canada, Toronto is just becoming entirely unliveable from a rent-to-income perspective and musicians are deserting in droves. Montreal remains the best option for musicians, but you can't really work there unless you have perfect Quebecois French. Lots of small towns 1- to 2-hours outside of Toronto are becoming popular places to move to-- Hamilton especially. I found a tenable living situation in Toronto but if I'll likely be leaving the city in five years or so for like Paris (Ontario) or Bancroft or something like that

perfect Quebecois French

Eh, I wouldn't say 'perfect'. Nor 'Quebecois' for that matter… But yeah, you need to be able to get by in French if you want a decent job in Montreal.

In Madison there's been an unexpected upswing in jazz & DIY venues, which is nice, because it was bleak for awhile. It's still pretty bleak for rap/dance/most other scenes imo. Milwaukee has a lot more going on for rap/dance/indie, but it's not exactly a wonderland.

I think the midwestern winter is a real deterrent to more artists moving/staying here.

didn't expect to see a bancroft, ontario reference itt.

i was there once a couple of winters back, my ex's cousin was a school teacher there.

I’m sorry that people don’t find discussion of how music is made interesting. Please enjoy this video of people brawling to a self playing piano, which reminded me of this thread in at least four ways

Aye so my mom witnessed a fight at Costco today... commotion was crazy... but I’m dying at this self-playing piano scoring the whole moment 😂😂😂😂😂 pic.twitter.com/LYNGWBAqEQ

— Allen Golden Jr. (@allengoldenjr) April 14, 2019

LOL, where is that?

Impartial observation from a guy who occasionally reads ILM but very seldom posts: I have no idea of the back-story here but I've enjoyed Turrican's posts ITT, even where I don't wholeheartedly agree.

The snarky criticisms seem weirdly misplaced (and a real bore to scroll through).

yeah i don't agree with falsehoods often as well.

scroll through my ass, lurker

don't do it lurker