17 Indie Artists on Their Oddest Odd Jobs That Pay the Bills When Music Doesn’t (not a poll)

Jesus.

xxxpost:

Yet, you actually - whether you're aware of it or not - agreed with exactly what I was getting at!

at the expense of shy and awkward geniuses who might be creating the next Tusk, Dark Side of the Moon, Abbey Road, Low, or Avalon

Circling back quickly — Paul, were you suggesting that the artists who recorded (say) Low and Avalon were awkward introverts who never would have made it in today’s Instagram-focused times?

I certainly don't agree with a single thing you've said on this thread. Your opinions are garbage and I regret even letting your nonsense enter my consciousness.

That's not how it read, but fair enough - you now have a reason to paint a watercolour and feel demoralised about it afterwards.

Getting a wee bit too cocky these days, son. Remember what happened last time?

Turrican is being a total cock but the FPs will fall as they may

- it totally fucking sucks to be part of that 22% and to be out on tour and find that the promoter has just opted not to invest the time and take a loss on the show, and you drove three hours to play to six people, the show just isn't listed in the papers or even at the venue, this happens to people all the time

I started not knowing about gigs being on when 3/4 of the papers went away (including the dance music one) and also people started listing gigs exclusively on Facebook

Sometimes people just decide to go whole-hog and embrace Patreon and Kickstarter-- in many ways, I have to respect Amanda Palmer for being the most quintessentially American musician for, somehow, turning a monstrous profit with such little talent or personal magnetism.

she absolutely has personal magnetism: lots of people are repelled by her, a sufficient amount are strongly attracted.

Well, this is not a case of opposites attract. I am repelled by her but I oddly admire how extreme she has been in riding her learjet of virtue all the way to Australia.

And yes, I have NO IDEA what's going on in the city any more, aside from Facebook events, and we still have a free weekly here. Personally I miss local message boards and wish they'd never went away

Circling back quickly — Paul, were you suggesting that the artists who recorded (say) Low and Avalon were awkward introverts who never would have made it in today’s Instagram-focused times?

― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Saturday, April 13, 2019 3:36 PM (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No - I would not call Bowie or Ferry introverted at all. I was merely suggesting that the person who today might make records as great as Low or Avalon may also be a weirdo person who is afraid of social media, leery of anything with a whiff of networking, and maybe doesn't enjoy playing live

And I’m having trouble thing of many artists fitting that bill who achieved great popularity (and $$$) in the past; at least the “didn’t enjoy playing live” part. But there have always been Jandek types who achieved their own kind of success.

Steely Dan, Kate Bush, XTC...

...The Beatles after 1966

literally almost every big rapper today doesn't really play live until after they are big, they might enjoy it though

The Beatles didn’t have to tour anymore, they were established super-mega-stars. As for the other artists you listed, I could probably list rough equivalents today (keeping in mind that styles and “the industry” have changed, but not in a “it’s all Instagram’s fault” way).
xp

...and UMS makes my point that there are a whole other set of avenues for artists to “make it” today who might not have before, which is why I don’t follow Paul’s “it’s a net loss” argument.

Can you elucidate? Explain how you think a budding Kate Bush living in a small town is going to "make it" in 2019?

the new model has been a boon to savvy but dull people making mediocre-at-best music at the expense of shy and awkward geniuses

Like if you’re such a crippling shy & awkward genius that you’re not even interested or able to get your music heard today (of all eras), how would you have done in the ‘70s? Sent a demo to Virgin Records and hoped for the best?

xp that is, with no industry contacts and no rich and / or famous mom or dad

by adventuring on a riverboat or something iirc

How was Kate Bush “discovered”? I honestly don’t know

Like if you’re such a crippling shy & awkward genius that you’re not even interested or able to get your music heard today (of all eras), how would you have done in the ‘70s? Sent a demo to Virgin Records and hoped for the best?

umm...yes?

Kate Bush is maybe a bad example because iirc from her biography her family was pretty wealthy, which would have made a life in art a lot easier than it would be for, say, a single mom working at a Rite Aid in Pittsburgh

xp — And that’s better than today, when an actual small-town kid like Will Toledo was able to gather an initial following by putting his shit online? The fact that you think he sucks is irrelevant, your “Kate Bush equivalent” could do it too.

Who is Matador not signing b/c (in your opinion) they’re wasting their money on Will? Your point is, “We’ll never know, but that person wile at least have had a fighting chance in an era where they would have been hopelessly obscure rather than have avenues to get attention!”

For one thing, Car Seat Headrest afaict do not make the kind of music that would necessitate a budget like the one given to, let's say for example, Portishead (more shy people who did alright under the old model). For another thing, I acknowledge that Will Toledo, as much as I dislike his music, might have been a bonafide star if he'd released the same records in 1996. He might also be a millionaire. At the very least he'd be doing better than he is now.

How was Kate Bush “discovered”? I honestly don’t know

Not only was her family well-off but they shared a mutual friend with David Gilmour, who thus heard her demo when she was 16. You can still make it with those kinds of connections.

xp Which I guess circles back to the original post. Does Car Seat Headrest pay the bills? If it does now, will it always?

(these are rhetorical questions, obviously, because a) I recognize that it's tacky to speculate about the finances of a perfect stranger and b) I have no idea what CSH makes)

What, are we comparing the relative shyness(es) of different artists now?

I assume Will T. doesn’t need a day job, don’t know about the other guys he plays with. Once they’re in their 30s & 40s? Guess the hope is to become a band like Spoon which makes indie rock into a sustainable grown-up lifestyle, there’s never been many like that though.

My point is that there are (and will be) fewer and fewer like that under the current model

oh no there will only be 2150468741857139850 indie bands

we're friends with a legitimately great singer/songwriter who went back to work recently, partially because she's been a single mom with two kids. she doesn't really fit in a particular easy hip niche except being amazing at what she does, and despite being enough of a name to have a c/d thread on here and maybe 10-12 albums released along with several others in a group, she's likely never going to make a living at that alone unless there's an unexpected breakthrough, but if she was releasing albums 30-40 years ago she'd likely be doing pretty well for herself. as it is, i'm proud of her for just having a positive attitude and holding down a music career and a day gig and having kids.

I've narrowed it down to three possible candidates and I love all three artists

oh no there will only be 2150468741857139850 indie bands

yes there are 2150468741857139850 indie bands making a living playing music in 2019. Why, I cant even order a latte these days without being served by one of them

if she was releasing albums 30-40 years ago she'd likely be doing pretty well for herself

she almost definitely would not be going back to work

xp ok? i'm sure ppl who sell fidget spinners probably have to do more than solely that btwn now + eternity to make a living too. who cares.

(xp) Would she have had 10-12 albums out? There were a lot of singer songwriters back then who were pretty talented who never got beyond one album and guess what they did next? They went back to work.

There's re-writing the history books and then there's re-writing the history books and turning them into fairy tales.

Yeah, the catalogs of the week in the ‘70s & ‘80s are littered with obscure bands and solo artists who had one or two albums, maybe a few, and then were dropped and that was that. I have a hard time believing that it’s somehow “more difficult than ever before” now to make a long-term career as a rock ‘n roll artist.

(Somehow the phrase “major labels” got changed to the word “week”(!) in the first line of my post above)

And saying “well Steely Dan did it” is coming it at from the wrong end.... Open that “Terrible ‘70s album titles” thread and tell me how many of those people never had to go back to work. Maybe they didn’t need side jobs in the few years they were under contract, but what does that amount to? If indie labels had existed then like today, they maybe could have kept releasing albums, but still would have needed day jobs.

paul i don't get this assumption you have where not using social media is evidence of some crippling mental condition

the problem with social media to me is not that some people are too shy or whatever to use it - i haven't found social anxiety any kind of impedance to using social media, which is probably one of the reasons it's so popular!

Guess the hope is to become a band like Spoon which makes indie rock into a sustainable grown-up lifestyle, there’s never been many like that though.

depends on how you define sustainable ... I think one of the things going on here is that America has such wildly varied costs of living that what can mean a "sustainable grown-up lifestyle" in Asheville, NC equals living with 3 roommates and having the equivalent of a post-college / barely scraping by lifestyle in a major city. This is just for a person who is single, or partnered without kids

Oh, for sure... Spoon lives in Austin, yeah?

Who are some other indie-rock “lifers” — at it for decades, maybe with kids, families, etc., and no side jobs needed? Malkmus (Portland), YLT (Hoboken still?), Built to Spill (dude lives in Boise), Will Oldham (Louisville)... this is just off top of head, I can think of others who have been in game for decades but don’t know for sure if any of them solely “make it” from their rock earnings.

Again, it feels a little weird speculating about the personal finances of these people, but you raise a good point about most f those artists living in relatively inexpensive cities. I always thought it was cool that Wayne Coyne has, as far as I know, remained in Norman, OK.

xp Asheville is not what I would call an inexpensive American city, exactly. Less expensive that New York or LA, sure, but definitely not cheap by southeastern (or midwestern) standards.

Brett from Spoon I thought lived in or around Portland. Yo La Tengo ... I could have sworn they have a place in Manhattan now? (And no kids). Built to Spill ... yeah, Idaho is pretty cheap, much cheaper than Portland/Austin/Hoboken for sure.

Low has it figured out, it seems, and they have kids.

Frankly surprised that the "lesser" cities of the Midwest aren't more sought-out as "liveable places for musicians". Madison, Milwaukee, Minneapolis and Iowa City all seem like lovely places!!

Oh, for sure... Spoon lives in Austin, yeah?

I don't think all the members of the band do? I could be wrong ... but I think at least one lives in SF bay area

xp Asheville is not what I would call an inexpensive American city, exactly. Less expensive that New York or LA, sure, but definitely not cheap by southeastern (or midwestern) standards.

let's say you're a musician who earns $4000 a year from ASCAP royalties -- how many months of expenses at a "middle class adult lifestyle" would that pay in Asheville, or a similar city?

lotta weird assumptions in this thread, the main one being that there is a direct relationship between quality of music and amount of time and money spent on it, which, uh ...

but it also doesn't follow that most musicians do it only for the love, but to me recognition is more important than money for my music (but, i am lucky to not hate my day job)

also in the box is indistinguishable from hardware/hybrid mostly these days; listen to teflon dawn and tell me it sounds tinny (completely digitally mixed)

i think most pop music sounds bad not due to lack of funds or expertise, but producing and making music designed to be listened to streamed into earbuds (voice way up in the mix and hyper compressed/EQ'd, everything else a rhythmic and harmonic slurry supporting the 'personality' that is really what animates the song)