reports of music industry's death seem greatly exaggerated:
https://i.imgur.com/NukUX5s.png
― what if bod was one of us (ledge), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 09:28 (five years ago) link
idk guys if some lumpen mid-tier indie band that sounds like a hundred other lumpen mid-tier indie bands can't make a good living for life off of sales of lumpen mid-tier indie records then i think we can safely say that capitalism has failed
― Boles to the Wolds (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 10:00 (five years ago) link
plenty of lumpen mid-tier indie bands were given big advances by pseudo-indie labels in the 1990s before being unceremoniously dumped a couple of years later, this is still what some people expect to happen in 2019
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 10:05 (five years ago) link
well quite, mistaking a bubble for the natural order of things
fortunately most working class people have easy access to a range of non-precarious jobs with great terms and conditions so the parlous state of popular music as a career in 2019 is obv some sort of anomaly
― Boles to the Wolds (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 10:08 (five years ago) link
It's also caused a decline in the amount of music of real quality because no one can be arsed, but that's a whole 'nother conversation.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Tuesday, April 9, 2019 12:09 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this isn’t true
― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 11:15 (five years ago) link
simon otm
turrican a huge dumbass in this thread as always
― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 11:18 (five years ago) link
― jolene club remix (BradNelson)
i think that's just textbook trolling... that statement is so cliche that I find it impossible that he didn't make that comment with some degree of self-awareness.
― enochroot, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 11:25 (five years ago) link
who are we talking about here
― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 11:26 (five years ago) link
The music industry discovered a host of ways to hoard even more profits and pay artists even less, is mainly what happened.
David Arditi's iTake-Over: The Recording Industry in the Digital Era takes exactly this position, and argues it fairly convincingly: that the industry's owners haven't suffered much at all by virtually eliminating their overhead and distributing music through platforms that pay royalties to labels instead of songwriters, unlike radio, and are compensating artists even less than before. In his view, the narrative of the 'crash of the music industry' has been used to push for even more regulatory protection to favour capital over labour in this industry.
This article doesn't necessarily make a compelling case for the troubles of artists, though.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 11:35 (five years ago) link
An interesting enough article, but – and I'm not having a go at any of them – I've never heard of any of those people in my life apart from Cass McCombs. So while it's possible I just don't have my ear pressed to the ground hard enough, it s equally possible that most of them are obscure types who are never going to sell enough records to e.g. buy a house.
McCombs himself: "This is a shitty thing to say, but maybe musicians don’t deserve to make a living. Maybe it should be a hobby. But if that’s true, I don’t want to see some talentless pop stars making what they make, while quality living museums of folk-music knowledge get paid nothing. That’s not cool."
― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 11:40 (five years ago) link
In the UK the dole and the art college grant are to thank for a huge chunk of the arts & culture we produced between the 60s and the 80s, some would say our only real success as a nation at that time, or since.Can't imagine trying to persuade Americans that that's the way to go, though, and hard disagree with McCombs, hobbies are only for the already comfortably off.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 11:49 (five years ago) link
I might be able to agree with McCombs in situations where no one is making a profit from the music.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 12:09 (five years ago) link
(Emphasis on "might" btw. I'm not even sure I'd agree in those cases, esp when waiting to hear back about a grant application.)
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 12:12 (five years ago) link
what
― Sam Weller, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 12:19 (five years ago) link
Cass McCombs (born 1977 in Concord, California) is an American musician, best known for releasing 9 albums since 2002.
i don't know who wrote this wiki lede but it made me lol and i tip my hat to them
― Boles to the Wolds (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 12:48 (five years ago) link
Oh yeah, that's the guy who put out 9 albums since 2002.
― jmm, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:02 (five years ago) link
a pub quiz classic
― Boles to the Wolds (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:08 (five years ago) link
not to be confused with gaz mccoombes
― kolarov spring (NickB), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:15 (five years ago) link
Gaz McCoombes also has strong opinions about talentless pop stars
― Boles to the Wolds (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:17 (five years ago) link
Hold on, Cass McCombs is a man? Who was I confusing him with then?
― Do you like 70s hard rock with a guitar hero? (Tom D.), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:22 (five years ago) link
Mamma Cass ?
― calzino, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:22 (five years ago) link
mama cass, obv
― he once took my hand and poked Neil Armstrong in the butt (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:23 (five years ago) link
fuck, beaten to it
No, Mama Cass never put out 9 albums.
― Do you like 70s hard rock with a guitar hero? (Tom D.), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:23 (five years ago) link
ahem
The Big 3 1963: The Big 3 1964: Live at the Recording StudioThe Mugwumps 1965: The MugwumpsThe Mamas and the Papas 1966: If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears 1966: The Mamas & the Papas 1967: The Mamas and the Papas Deliver 1968: The Papas & The Mamas 1970: Monterey Pop Festival (Live)[43] (recorded in 1967) 1971: People Like Us
1963: The Big 3 1964: Live at the Recording Studio
The Mugwumps
1965: The Mugwumps
The Mamas and the Papas
1966: If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears 1966: The Mamas & the Papas 1967: The Mamas and the Papas Deliver 1968: The Papas & The Mamas 1970: Monterey Pop Festival (Live)[43] (recorded in 1967) 1971: People Like Us
― he once took my hand and poked Neil Armstrong in the butt (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:25 (five years ago) link
being the flamekeeper of "real music" and doing a job to pay for your neaps + tatties is a tough bloody gig, but those McCoombes boys are Made oot o' pure tough stuff!
― calzino, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:30 (five years ago) link
neaps
it's 'neeps' u savage
― he once took my hand and poked Neil Armstrong in the butt (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:31 (five years ago) link
lol soz!
― calzino, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:32 (five years ago) link
Solo albums u savage.
― Do you like 70s hard rock with a guitar hero? (Tom D.), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:33 (five years ago) link
too soon for Neepsy Hussle arguments, please
― Boles to the Wolds (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:34 (five years ago) link
Everybody's gettin' fat 'cept McCombs, Cass
― Sam Weller, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:42 (five years ago) link
no neepsy hussle hassle, counsels noodle
― he once took my hand and poked Neil Armstrong in the butt (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 13:44 (five years ago) link
I don't want to nitpick the folks in this article bc they all seem fine and some of them I am even fans of, but I lol'd at this bit in one of the blurbs:
I moved back home with my family just to take off the added stress of making rent [...]I don’t have a rich dad funding my career.
I mean... you literally do have a parent funding your career?
― One Eye Open, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 14:17 (five years ago) link
the Algiers blurb made me sad as they're one of the best bands currently going. glad I picked up both LPs when they came through but it's time to find a hoodie of theirs or something.
― Simon H., Wednesday, 10 April 2019 14:21 (five years ago) link
I was mildly surprised to see the guy from Budos Band on there, I would have figured that they do ok, but then I remembered that there are like 9 people in that band so touring is probably murder.
― One Eye Open, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 14:24 (five years ago) link
"Art teacher in a NYC high school for 17 years" is another one that seems like a stretch as a "side hustle".
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 14:32 (five years ago) link
btw, being a living museum of folk-music knowledge is it's own reward, right?
― Mark G, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 14:46 (five years ago) link
I like the guy who notes that being a webmaster for a group of old-school Seattle socialists doesn’t pay very well.
― get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 14:49 (five years ago) link
hmmm, sounds as if it’s a long way to the top if you want to rock n roll
― pippin drives a lambo through the gates of isengard (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 14:51 (five years ago) link
I've no trouble believing that it might be worse now but are we working from the premise that second-tier indie musicians did not need day jobs in the pre-Napster days?― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Wednesday, April 10, 2019 2:13 AM (twelve hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Wednesday, April 10, 2019 2:13 AM (twelve hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Well, yes, mediocre indie bands making mediocre indie music for a cupboard full of their friends may well have found it difficult to get the necessary break that would enable them to quit their day jobs and move into a full-time career recording and touring their music. I'm more talking about the wider picture.
And as much as Brad protests, it has had an effect. It's all well and good for people to spout hippyish nonsense like "well, people who feel the drive to make music will always want to make music", but if there's no money in your chosen profession then the idea of chasing after a career in music becomes less and less attractive. It's led to more people becoming totally apathetic about a career in music or even wanting to make any music of real quality. The artists currently making the big/blockbuster releases are either already fully established or are moneyed enough to do it. There's far too much music being made with a "this'll do" quality to it, because they can't be arsed, and because Spotify places any new release by Mr. Joe Experimentalbollocks-from-Coventry on the same pedestal as something of real quality, they don't feel any great need to be arsed. The amount of shit music I've heard this decade has been utterly embarrassing.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 14:57 (five years ago) link
boy, "permalance" sure is a depressing term
― Simon H., Wednesday, 10 April 2019 14:58 (five years ago) link
maybe stop listening to shit music idk
― Boles to the Wolds (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 10 April 2019 14:59 (five years ago) link
man I remember the Napster days and how everyone on it was like "this is awesome, I'd gladly pay for this if I could"...like, this was the era of the $17.99 CD with one or two good songs on it, massive amounts of re-issues and greatest hits, etc etc. tempting to blame the consumer but you can't really fault us for feeling ripped off. like you can't really blame people too much for streaming a boxing match when you're charging $99.99 for pay-per-view. I used to think that the industry punting the digital side for a decade-plus was the big culprit, but now that we have Spotify where an artist gets paid a quarter per 100,000 plays, I'm starting to think capitalism might be the real problem here
― frogbs, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 15:08 (five years ago) link
what is ADP― blokes you can't rust (sic), Wednesday, April 10, 2019 12:25 AM (seven hours ago)
― blokes you can't rust (sic), Wednesday, April 10, 2019 12:25 AM (seven hours ago)
probably about 30% - 40% of workers in the US have their payroll or (at least w-2s) processed by ADP -- in the company's own words:
"We are a comprehensive global provider of cloud-based human capital management (HCM) solutions that unite HR, payroll, talent, time, tax and benefits administration, and a leader in business outsourcing services, analytics and compliance expertise."
― sarahell, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 15:09 (five years ago) link
lisa germano used to work at Whole Foods in WeHo like 10 years ago maybe i saw her there but not being really a fan i wouldn't know. but it would be nice to think she sliced my bread or packaged up my scallops or something― velko, Wednesday, April 10, 2019 12:29 AM (seven hours ago)
― velko, Wednesday, April 10, 2019 12:29 AM (seven hours ago)
I think my ex's brother worked at that Whole Foods around that time???! (not that you would have confused him for Lisa Germano ... like, maybe they were co-workers)
― sarahell, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 15:11 (five years ago) link
How far we've fallen since the '90s.
speaking of the 90s, the thing that's most "odd" to me about the jobs listed here, is that none of them are strippers / sex workers -- that was way more common in the 90s.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 15:25 (five years ago) link
man I remember the Napster days and how everyone on it was like "this is awesome, I'd gladly pay for this if I could"...like, this was the era of the $17.99 CD with one or two good songs on it
I dunno, I kinda blame the consumer. I remember having that debate and hearing that line back in the day from friends who were students, working shit jobs, etc. And now 15 years later many of them have houses and good jobs and can afford a $17.99 CD or ten, yet they seem to have changed their tune on this point.
― One Eye Open, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 15:29 (five years ago) link
"Whole Foods is the he best dead end job in the world" is a joke I've heard among musicians.
― bendy, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 15:34 (five years ago) link
The artists currently making the big/blockbuster releases are either already fully established or are moneyed enough to do it.
otm. It's actually become frustratingly difficult to find exceptions to this.
― Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 16:04 (five years ago) link
I remember an old interview about Interpol where Paul Banks talked about how he would take dead, deader, dead-i-er end office jobs so that he would be forced to make his band successful. I don't recall if he was a rich kid where that action plan actually had no consequences.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 16:08 (five years ago) link
but then Rat Bastard got a huge ass Knight Foundation grant for like putting on the International Noise Conference, but that's an outlier in terms of the conventions of music/arts funding
― sarahell, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 17:08 (five years ago) link
also i would like to thank ilx for expressing interest in the generally boring rarefied things I know/deal with as part of my job (or rather, many past jobs). ... feeling lots of <3 rn
― sarahell, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 17:12 (five years ago) link
This is honestly so interesting!
― flamboyant goon tie included, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 19:49 (five years ago) link
I have some imaginary comedy sketch in my head where a group of musicians from different parts of north america are talking about funding and grants and one ends up pointing a finger and exclaiming "but you're subsidized.. BY CANCON!!"
― mh, Wednesday, 17 April 2019 20:51 (five years ago) link
Sarahell, def otm about the jazz stuff.
At one point I got really sick of doing jazz gigs because it felt irrelevant, was often musical wallpaper, etc. Now I love doing them because you get paid and it doesn't matter if anyone comes or if they listen, and the free food and drinks are way better than playing original music in a diy space.
― change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 April 2019 22:03 (five years ago) link
I can see the transition from the paying for a copy business model to the paying for usage business model reaching a climaxwhen they finally get the chips planted in our heads. Music lovers, who have songs floating in and out of their consciousnessall day, will have a hefty bill to pay at the end of the month.
― nicky lo-fi, Thursday, 18 April 2019 13:57 (five years ago) link
a chilling vision of the future
― After Cease to Brexist (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 18 April 2019 14:23 (five years ago) link
https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/
this is through 2018. Adjusted for inflation, the 1999 peak is $21+ Bil., with 2018 revenues at $9.5 Bil.
― campreverb, Thursday, 18 April 2019 14:51 (five years ago) link
people must've been downloading like crazy in the 1970s
― After Cease to Brexist (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 18 April 2019 14:52 (five years ago) link
i think it was due to the changes in British currency?
― sarahell, Thursday, 18 April 2019 14:54 (five years ago) link
lmao
― Boris Bronfentrinker of Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 18 April 2019 14:55 (five years ago) link
lol
― pomenitul, Thursday, 18 April 2019 14:58 (five years ago) link
the real winter of discontent: huge threepenny-bitBerg of '71 causes greatest threat to sterling since some numpt bought too many tulips and ended up eating them.
― calzino, Thursday, 18 April 2019 15:40 (five years ago) link
https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/this is through 2018. Adjusted for inflation, the 1999 peak is $21+ Bil., with 2018 revenues at $9.5 Bil.
That's helpful, thanks. It seems that the industry is back to about inflation-adjusted 1985 profit levels, which is not disastrous by any stretch, and if artists are being compensated or treated worse than they were at that time, that would be a shame. The CD boom of the 90s was something of a bubble.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Friday, 19 April 2019 13:29 (five years ago) link
Ringtones still raking in a cool 25 mil.
― bendy, Friday, 19 April 2019 14:35 (five years ago) link
Karlheinz Stockhausen working as an *accompanist to a stage magician has to be up there in the oddest odd jobs department.
(*not assistant, sadly)
― Freddie Starr (Hitler in shorts) (Tom D.), Saturday, 27 April 2019 19:32 (five years ago) link
When I heard that Philip Glass and Steve Reich both worked as movers before they were able to make a living off their music, I invented a "joke". I pictured them moving a heavy wardrobe up a flight of stairs. Philip says, "Steve, you're always moving slightly faster than me and we're getting out of sync." Steve said, "Phil, that's the twentieth time you've said that and it's getting tiresome."
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 27 April 2019 20:17 (five years ago) link
wow lol !
― budo jeru, Saturday, 27 April 2019 20:32 (five years ago) link
yeah, that's a really good joke! I may steal that one
― Paul Ponzi, Saturday, 27 April 2019 20:35 (five years ago) link
i laughed irl
― maura, Saturday, 27 April 2019 20:39 (five years ago) link
spectacularpectacularsectacularspctacularspetacularspecacularspectcularspectaularspectaclarspectacuarspectaculrspectacula
― be the 2 chainz you want 2 see in the world (m bison), Saturday, 27 April 2019 21:13 (five years ago) link
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Saturday, 27 April 2019 23:43 (five years ago) link
LOL!!!
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 28 April 2019 21:59 (five years ago) link
:)
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 28 April 2019 22:33 (five years ago) link