Ryan Adams

one of the things that burns me up the most about this is the way he insidiously poisoned his victims' relationship with music. not only is he a lying, promise-breaking, misleading, objectifying POS, he made it difficult for women to find peace and emotional security in music, which i believe is precious. his lying and manipulation took something else away from people that is more precious than a hundred thousand virginities if they were countable. i was not a fan but i am disgusted on behalf of the people who did like his music and trusted him. ugh fuck this guy.

i just read laura snapes' thing and she really gets to the heart of it

It is, in the words of the New Statesman critic Anna Leszkiewicz, women doing “the boring work of killing our idols” – the male artists who let us down time after time – while male predators kill the dreams of the young women who admire them. Two women in the NYT’s report about Adams say that their interactions with him extinguished their desire to ever make music again. If the allegations are true, these women – and probably thousands more with similar stories about other men – are the collateral damage of a protectionist industry whose power brokers operate out of fear of their own irrelevance. It is pathetic.

For an example of an interviewer abetting this letting off the hook dynamic

http://clrvynt.com/michael-gira-interview/

man hearing these fucks "extinguished their desire to ever make music again" really stings as someone who loves to make music and understands how fulfilling it can be

/wonder how many teenage girls the Dead f****d while on the road. probably all of them!/

I’m open to being schooled by someone with more knowledge on the subject, but I’ve never had the impression that the Dead were known for this.

Broad agree with lalecera apart from..

something else away from people that is more precious than a hundred thousand virginities if they were countable.

.... Whoa horsey!

His whole insta is positive comments. Are the management team keeping clean?!?

ll otm. Without meaning to downplay the sexism suffered by women in other professions, music means more to me that movies, etc. It's primal and spritual at the deepest level. Ever since I was a child, I have woken up looking forward to the music that I'm going to experience throughout my day and how fucked would it be to take that away from someone else?

A few years back, Jessica Hopper started something on twitter, where a ton of women spoke up about the abuse and indignities that had been piled on them by men in the music industry. It was eye-opening and disheartening for me. But I don't think many names were named, if at all. And a lot of the abuse came from audiences and fairly anonymous types like security guards and recording studio staff.

There have obviously been other accusations against more high-profile artists and producers, but for some reason it doesn't feel like it's taken on the snowball effect of the Hollywood Me-Too movement.

xpost - Instagram has an options where only accounts you are following can comment. So he either has that activated or has turned off new comments altogether.

The Adams story, Snapes article plus the Hopper thread does make you wonder whether there will be an avalanche of stories about musicians on the horizon similar to what we saw with Weinstein. Lord knows there’s more than enough material – but I suspect the question will be whether there are enough resources in the music press or clicks to be had in the MSM to drive the investigative reporting necessary to unearth them.

Well, it's official.

This just in. pic.twitter.com/WCDuOwAkJG

— Bull Moose Vinyl (@BullMooseVinyl) February 15, 2019

ok i got a little carried away there for a second :) (though i do truly believe that a music-loving/music-making person's relationship to music is more spiritually sustaining and precious than the garbage concept of virginity) that's how angry i am. when j hopp started collecting those stories, i didn't even know where to begin. i still don't! the cumulative damage is so spread out and diffuse. i can only make up for lost time at this point.

Literally couldn't remember what RA sounded like, so checked out "New York, New York" on Youtube.

Top comment: "This song was the last straw for Bin Laden."

one of the things that burns me up the most about this is the way he insidiously poisoned his victims' relationship with music. not only is he a lying, promise-breaking, misleading, objectifying POS, he made it difficult for women to find peace and emotional security in music, which i believe is precious. his lying and manipulation took something else away from people that is more precious than a hundred thousand virginities if they were countable. i was not a fan but i am disgusted on behalf of the people who did like his music and trusted him. ugh fuck this guy.

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, February 15, 2019 12:59 AM (thirteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OTM and I was glad that the LS piece highlighted this. From speaking to people in other industries that have had MeToo headlines this totally happens everywhere - women get to a promising point in their career and then are completely put off or feel unable to do certain jobs/work with certain people, which always seems to end up with them compromising on success. Even other women who see it are mentally weighing up what (most) men never have to.

btw I have never knowingly heard any music by this guy

I'd like to hear from Caitlin Cary on all of this.

a more mundane reason why music is more insidious for this than movies, etc. is that it is far easier/more normalized for a fan to be in regular contact, virtual or physical, with a musician than an actor. film, for instance, doesn't really have an analogue to concerts. of course this can result in a lot of great and positive experiences, but it can also... not.

Kinder, me too, although some groupie man-worshipping type I knew was repping him, and that was reason enough for me to hate-listen to him.
"Authenticity" is a trap for women, since women have long been accused of being "fake" anyway just for being themselves. Found a link to this article, which I haven't seen before, on Twitter. Good reading:

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/music-theatre/2015/09/ryan-adams-s-1989-and-mansplaining-taylor-swift

XPS Was wondering what happened to Cary, as she seemingly fell off the map in the late '00s. Apparently she's been part of a protest band called The North Carolina Music Love Army since 2013.

This discussion reminded me of what Alanis Morissette experienced as a minor in the music business (as she has documented in several songs), and made me realize how remarkable it is that she even continued with music.

friend of ours posted on her FB that she believes the women because she was one of them. i'm not sure when it occurred but apparently he claimed he wanted to write songs with her and it took another turn when his true intent was revealed, so she walked out. She says she really just thought he liked her music and wanted to work with her! She's a pretty accomplished musician but on a much lower level profile-wise than RA. I imagine it's heartbreaking to think that a star musician would want to help you and you start to think this could be a boost to your career, and then that happens.

and not just heartbreaking. disenchanting, depressing, infuriating, horrific.

soul-crushing
dream-squashing

and to think that even for the ones who didn't walk out, he poisoned them on their own music, on themselves, so he could maintain control. he needs to be completely reprogrammed.

Tip of the indie rock iceberg, indeed

hey @thethermals (Hutch) what’s up w these tweets? pic.twitter.com/duG3tnK7FO

— Get Better Records (@Getbetterrecs) February 15, 2019

"I know our love is wrong
I am a criminal
Mmm, I am a prisoner"

Ryan Adams - "Prisoner"

Just lost his association with JHS guitar pedals, where he had a branded pedal:

https://scontent-msp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51931636_2490108351017307_5641229643949277184_o.jpg

https://scontent-msp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51931636_2490108351017307_5641229643949277184_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQnFkH1AamtkHJd_DWS93bJ-5ArfOOmsP2yklPxOz0-iiHWws503UThWlkZTHvcmKxU&_nc_ht=scontent-msp1-1.xx&oh=f55cb9b52b44f68666994d12236fa563&oe=5CE07854

His amp sponsor is out as well.

https://www.wweek.com/music/2019/02/14/portlands-benson-amps-announces-it-will-no-longer-make-ryan-adams-signature-amplifier-following-accusations-of-sexual-misconduct-against-the-musician/

was he really putting out three albums this year

not-entirely-relevant sidebar but releasing three albums in a year (or trying to release three albums in a year but having his WILD GENIUS be UNFAIRLY TRAMMELLED by THE MAN) was a frequent part of his personality-marketing

2000: first solo album released, after a previous first solo album was abandoned in label limbo [aka THE MAN still owned it] = 2 (plus a bootlegged album of demos he later used for B-sides and at one point remastered to release in a box set, so sort of 3)

2001: second solo album (a double that THE MAN cut the fourth side from except for a limited edition), final Whiskeytown album released from label limbo = call it 2.5

2002: has three discrete solo albums (one double) written & recorded & promoed, THE MAN takes them away and releases a disparate compilation of tracks from them. under a pseudonym, he records two EPs with a punk band, releases one, and a compilation of the two is released the next year = 4.5 (plus a leaked album of demos he threatened to include in a box set at one point, so sort of 5)

2003: has two albums ready to go. THE MAN decides one of them is too much of a downer, and this time cuts it into two EPs, but adds tracks to make them album length (then recompiles them into the original album the next year). two are released on the same day, one a month later = 3

2004: broke his wrist

2005: forms The Cardinals. in seven months he releases a double album, records & releases a single album, then releases a solo album recorded earlier in the year. also records a fifth album while essaying the unreleased soundtrack to a Cameron Crowe film and plays the entire thing over the PA before Australian shows = 4.5

2006: records another two Cardinals albums but THE MAN refuses to release any more, they come out as a double in 2010. he and the Cardinals do an album with Willie Nelson instead. apparently he released like 10 other albums for free download under various aliases or whatnot, I'd stopped listening in 2003 and stopped reading anything by now

anyway the point was always that he was a VERY SPECIAL ARTIST and you should LISTEN to what he HAS TO SAY and he shouldn't have to COMPLY WITH your RULES and shit. just DO WHAT I WANT because I have ART TO SHARE and it'll be magical if you just go along with me

but if he got shut down firmly he would nearly always lose interest completely and drop the matter except for some mild whining about how it wasn't his fault, later on, if asked.

hmmm

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ryan-adams-being-dropped-by-radio-stations-sexual-misconduct-claims-1187264

"Once we got his texts of him sexually harassing a 14-year-old girl, it was like, no, we have to stop," one Virginia programmer told Billboard. "As of midnight [Feb. 15], it's gone. I mean, all of it. The entire catalog."

Noting that though there had been numerous previous accounts of Adams being a "jerk," the programmer said that once the Times allegations came out, "I'm not rewarding this guy anymore. That's stupid. Go count your money. I don't wanna be complicit."

XP Radio Stations play Ryan Adams?

Funny bit of jackassery from thisGold-era Magnet piece he declined to take part in (and later bitched loudly about, inspiring another good piece from the mag that I now can't find online).

Anyway:

“Ryan always talked a good game about how ‘Whiskeytown is a band,’ but deep down, I don’t think he ever believed that,” says Menconi. “Caitlin used to call her song ‘Matrimony’ the ‘Ryan Interlude,’ because he didn’t have anything to do while she sang it. So he would sometimes leave the stage. One night, they were playing the Brewery in Raleigh, which is connected to the Comet Lounge (namechecked on the Strangers Almanac song ‘Yesterday’s News’). And during that song, he went next door, bumped into a friend, had a few drinks. Suddenly, he remembered he was supposed to be onstage and ran back to find the band had gone on without him; they’d run out of songs and were playing covers. So he ran to the front of the stage and started heckling them, yelling that they suck. He told me later that there’s ‘nothing more fun than heckling your own band.’ He really understands rock mythology and how to play into it. He’s perfect for the part of a rock star.”

General catchup on things.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/15/arts/music/ryan-adams-album.html

it bums me out pretty hard that people only seem to care about the 14 year old girl. i realize that is the part that is against the law and probably is the most disgusting but still. i heard a portion of a podcast where a woman was talking about her experience dating him (very briefly! she used a pseudonym for him) and i had to stop listening because it was getting too gnarly.

it did remind me, however, that 1) he used to date winona ryder, wonder what she has to say and 2) i was reminded that i never bought the "lovable loser" schtick of the replacements (to bring it back to the OP of this thread). they weren't losers -- they were guys in a pretty well-loved and critically acclaimed rock band. i read the book! i still feel this way. his dumbass entitled "rock star" behavior over the years always reminded me of an arrogant jerk who thought deep down that he would never lose his prized perch. to that guy i have a message: good news! you lose!

could do without any further "why does everyone only care about the 14 year old" posts

i'm sorry
i didn't realize there were more of them
i just really hate him

SSo he ran to the front of the stage and started heckling them, yelling that they suck. He told me later that there’s ‘nothing more fun than heckling your own band.’ He really understands rock mythology and how to play into it. He’s perfect for the part of a rock star.”

"kill rock stars" should really be our motto from now on

honestly i should almost certainly stop thinking about this. i don't like the things coming out of my own mouth! i don't hate people. (there are some people i think are evil and that is different)

i hate him too ll! i just don't think that line of thinking is helpful, we can be mad about all of it and i am

but also for me personally grooming is like deep permanent psychological damage inflicted on someone before they even have the mental resources to fight it, i almost couldn't make it through the nytimes piece bc it led with it

also UNFORTUNATELY i have deep emotional ties to this asshole's music, so i'm probably more sensitive about everything than i need to be, sorry for being so reactionary ll <3

gold helped me out a lot when i was recovering from the end of my very first relationship, which was... emotionally abusive

<3 I’ve been there too, when I was very young. Only I wasn’t talented, just vulnerable. This whole thing has me feeling low.

I thought you said god

i read an interview last night (and now i can't find it) w/Whiskeytown's former manager, who wrote a book about his time w/the band. He goes on about how Adams is a genius and probably has an off-the-charts IQ, and he also seems to buy into the whole "asshole as careerist rock star move" stuff in a positive way. He mentioned his "charisma" a couple times in an admiring manner too, and tbh one thing that makes me a bit ...maybe not "suspicious" per se, but it makes me take a step back...is when someone is getting by on their charisma. they *seem* very impressive, but what are they really saying and doing and what are they getting away with?

I heard Carol Burnett’s daughter Jodi Hamilton talking about how RA ghosted her sister while she was dying of cancer then went out to get sympathy in the press after her death

I bought the first Whiskeytown album based on the hype, found it in Asheville NC but couldn’t find it in Texas, was 1995 or 6 I guess. I was disappointed, it was a weak Uncle Tupelo rip. But the hype continued. I never understood it but maybe I’m starting to.

could do without any further "why does everyone only care about the 14 year old" posts

Whiskeytown meant a lot to me as a drunk saddo 22-year old white guy but I'm comfortable that I won't miss out on anything never listening to any of it again.

idk that i have anything much to add.
i am angry about all of it & his garbage reactions so far & the damage done to these women on so many levels and/or their creative aspirations ....

but also wrestling w selfish feels bc of enjoying his music in the past & that makes me angry too

i have a great friendship with someone that started out as a mutual enjoyment of his music & it all just feels gross & hollow to think on that now

again, selfish feels mixed in but mostly SO grossed out by him in general. i just...UGH

it was a weak Uncle Tupelo rip.

This has always been my view of his music. It also didn't help that the guy has always seemed like a humorless dick trafficking in tortured artist tropes.