C/D ::: Tortoise's TNT

Lol, which reminds me of the time I saw them close the Bang on a Can festival and just look pathetically sloppy following the musicians that played the rest of it. Again, forgiven though, still love the boys.

iirc Pajo left the group partway through recording this - so some of it is him and some of it is Parker, right?

It's funny to think that one of their best albums is also their "transitional" album. i.e., they very much settled into a sound once Parker joined the group and their lineup finally solidified. You can hear inklings of their past and their future in this record, but it's also arguably better than everything that came after.

Could be a fun thread - "superior 'transitional' albums". (Though I can't think of any other examples.)

I am overall a bigger fan of Parker Tortoise than Pajo Tortoise, even though I love Pajo. They sound a little too clean in the Pajo era at times, and Parker's off-kilter melodies spice things up a bit.

I'm a fan of every era, to be clear. Though as much as I like Parker's playing I do feel like the group in general has settled into something over the last 2-3 albums. I wish they'd shake it up a little more.

I saw them play years back and everything was very good and very nice and then they closed with Djed and you could just feel the ambition of that track. They've never really felt *ambitious* in a long time.

Could be a fun thread - "superior 'transitional' albums". (Though I can't think of any other examples.)

― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Thursday, February 7, 2019 4:37 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

love this idea. i'm sure i love a few that qualify

I sometimes feel like music sort of "caught up" with them, and then they didn't really have a way to push things further.

I remember reading that TNT was their first album with Pro Tools, but in a small rehearsal space with minimal gear, so they had to laboriously record it one instrument at a time. Not a scenario they would want to repeat I'm sure, but it really worked.

ts: "la jetee" vs. "jetty"

wrong album but i'm listening to millions now living rn and "glass museum" whips a ton of ass, i nearly forgot

take it to the millions now living thread bub

I like me some TNT, but I'll go with "La Jetee" every time fwiw--that first Isotope record is so much fun.

I first heard that Isotope record in a store on the outskirts of Denver - one of those record store experiences that stay with you. It's great.

I like the 'sloppy' comment upthread. They *are* kinda sloppy. Whenever I've seen them live I'm always kind of stunned by how sloppy Herndon and McEntire are. None of which is a criticism.

It wasn’t something that had ever struck me seeing them live in the past, but watching them follow a bunch of conservatory trained musicians sort of brought it into relief.

I always recommend Gastr del Sol's Camoufleur as a twofer for those who dig TNT (and who doesn't). They came out around the same time and have a similar sound/vibe. They're somewhat inseparable in my mind from being in constant rotation during the spring/summer of '98.

If there's a criticism to be levelled at Tortoise it's that their a po-faced old bunch - even their playfulness seems studied and stiff. Which is to say, I think Gastr del Sol are too irreverent and whimsical to be Tortoise bedfellows.

I wouldn't say they're terribly similar outfits in general but McEntire played on and produced some of Camofleur so I don't think it's much of a stretch.

(I mean, more broadly I'd recommend the other 'McIntire sound' joints from that era e.g. Dots and Loops and the Spinanes' Arches and Aisles but this particular pairing feels more natural since they were released weeks apart, shared personnel, both had covers featuring abstract sketches on a stark white field, etc.)

That sounded grumpier than I meant it to! Both fab just hadn't really considered them together before.

Nah, didn't take it as grumpy at all, no worries.

Also Tortoise's self-titled debut album doesn't seem to get a ton of praise but I think it's very good and not too distant from their best stuff.

Maaaan, that period of Thrill Jockey/Drag City releases was like a womb within which my musical self gestated. So you have them to blame, I guess.

TNT, Arches and Aisles and Camoufleur (and the first two Isotope records) all very much belong to the same particular time and place for me. Also the first few Sea and Cake records and the Sam Prekop s/t.

Tortoise literally sprang from the original Gastr del Sol lineup so it’s fair to call them bedfellows I think. Obviously they took different paths and added important members later but they are both rooted from the same place.

Yeah, I was thinking sonically, and specifically about Camoufleur, which has led me realise I don't really know early Gastr all that well. Something for the weekend...

A detailed playlist of all the inter-related Chicago stuff from this period would be the thing.

I forgot the first Pullman album was from '98, as well. Again with that same soporific vibe. Quite a neat little nexus at that particular moment.

yeah that's a lesser artifact of the era but still enjoyable

The first Brokeback album was '99, too.

Eleventh Dream Day has done some good shit in the last decade or so

The backing band for the Brian McMahan's debut EP (The For Carnation "Fight Songs" - 1995) was:

David Pajo
Doug McCombs
John Herndon

which was like half of Tortoise at that point.

I would definitely lump their full album in with this lot but it came out a couple years later.

I didn't delve into tons of other Chicago stuff besides the Sea and Cake, some of the Isotope/Underground records, and Jeff Parker's work. Listening to Camofleur for the first time as I type this!

And I was really into Hefty Records (via Telefon Tel Aviv), which was more of a spiritual cousin than part of the circle.

If it's in, big call but the first For Carnation album is my favourite of all this stuff.

Listening to Camofleur for the first time as I type this!

― change display name (Jordan), Friday, February 8, 2019 2:13 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Jealous! Man, to hear 'The Seasons Reverse' again for the first time.

I'm seeing Grubbs/McEntire in a month kinda randomly.

Jeff Parker's the New Breed from a couple years ago is excellent

https://www.allmusic.com/album/the-new-breed-mw0002945746

^looove that record

So far Camofleur sounds like a nice blend of Isotope 217 (electronics & processed horns) and Sea and Cake (soft pop, not to over-generalize). Really nice.

It's sort of their easy listening album. The earlier stuff was a little more 'difficult'.

speaking of post rock first listens

will never forget the first time i heard "Our Exquisite Replica of "Eternity""

I always do this, but have to recommend the first Cougar album, made by a group of my friends and very much influenced by this music (TNT in particular). And mixed by McEntire.

https://open.spotify.com/album/1rrQX4w2GxuStM713LTEA8?si=D64l8fFxSzmRl31__fVPzQ

Second album is better produced and maybe better overall, but this one has the pretty melodies and is more naturalistic.

xpost My mind was blown then and blown a second time when I saw The Incredible Shrinking Man a few years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpsu6RV4dJk

wow, arches and aisles is great, i don't know how i missed it

love camofleur, david grubbs is underrated, there are two great tribute records from japan from around this time that have plenty of folks from that whole scene, "smiling pets" the beach boys tribute and "rabid chords" the velvet underground tribute, it's a good nutshell of the sort of stuff i was into in those days

Totally forgot about Smiling Pets!

Arches and Aisles is a great album, but I'd also recommend the rest of the McEntire-less Spinanes/Rebecca Gates discography. She's fantastic and sadly underrated imo.

<3 this revive

This revive has sent me off down all sorts of rabbit holes. Not even heard of those Japanese tributes. Or the Spinanes.

Great thread revive indeed. Getting pretty nostalgic for that era. Late 90s, Thrill Jockey / Drag City, takes me back to some pretty golden musical days for me.
Had never heard of the Spinanes connection. I'm checking out Arches and Aisles, it's pretty good but it definitely reminds me how Manos was labelled on some ilx thread as perfect music to "listen to alone in your flat with a cup of coffee on a chilly, overcast morning". They just sound so relentlessly dour.

Strange, I never considered Tortoise the least bit loose or sloppy. I did generally get the feeling that Herndon and McEntire in particular were trying to "jazz" up the compositions a bit, but the product was always still very stiff and formalized, wed to the original arrangement. Though I seem to recall a few of their earlier shows seeing more one-off experiments, like one I saw with Bitney on a home made electric drum set. Speaking of which:

Tortoise literally sprang from the original Gastr del Sol

Ehhhh ...I mean, there was McEntire and Bundy, who were in Bastro before that with Grubbs. But Bundy and McEntire also played a bit on Seam's first (or second?) album, etc. All these Chicago-y bands at the time were kind of overlapping a bit across a weird Oberlin/post-Slint Louisville axis. (And obviously Doug McCombs, another major Louisville/Chicago connection.) Squirrel Bait, Bastro, Bitch Magnet, Seam, Shrimp Boat (incl. Brad Wood) to Tortoise/Sea and Cake, Gastr del Sol. It was kind of a gradual evolution of line-ups and players. And Idful.

don't forget Codeine!

McEntire also played a bit on Seam's first (or second?) album

The drummer on Headsparks (Seam's first album), was none other than Mac McCaughan (and he's great):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT52-pdhEeQ

Mac McCaughan, to tie everything up, is on the new Merge records 'Heroes' album - mentioned on the boards somewhere today.

Bundy and McEntire play on the the second album, then. Maybe "Sweet Pea?"

Codeine ... not too much overlap there. I think Grubbs appears on one album?

The lineup for the first Gastr del Sol album is Grubbs, McEntire and Brown. Then McEntire and Brown split off and formed Tortoise. It’s not a stretch to say they’re connected. There are moments on Serpentine Similar that definitely point toward the first Tortoise album, if you can look past Grubbs’ very distinctive guitar style.

Obviously both bands evolved immensely after that due to significant additions to their lineups (and the departure of Brown from everything). But it’s interesting to listen to Serpentine and then the Tortoise debut.

Checked out The Spinanes 'Arches and Aisles' earlier due to this thread and really like it, thanks!