Post a controversial music opinion

I don't mind the song lengths on Disintegration but it really isn't Smith's best songwriting at all imo - if anything, the lengths and builds are what make many of the songs interesting i.e. Brad/eric otm

And it's not like they hadn't already bettered all the builds with The Kiss tbah

Ah see I love Disintegration but Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me is the classic Cure record I really struggle to get through.

Both have songs that go on way past their appointed times.

Three Imaginary Boys to The Head on the Door > Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me to Wish > everything afterwards.

that's a weird division to me, to my ears the goth trilogy and the Top/Head on the Door/KM KM KM are distinct eras

actually I guess the latter should include Japanese Whispers too.

I mean going from "Pornography" (the track) to "Let's Go to Bed" or "The Lovecats" or "The Walk" - there's a clear break there, it's almost like a completely different band

The divide is quality related, not stylistic!

it's both to me lol

The Cure in dirgey jam mode is pretty dull, I'm definitely more of a singles guy. They have so many great and catchy songs, that diving into their beloved goth albums was a jarring and mostly boring experience.

Had exactly the same experience. I've never returned either

turrican, have you ever worked at or aspired to work at a box building factory, because you seem to have an affinity for it

No, no, do be quiet.

granted, what you put in your boxes tends to be an arbitrary mish-mash that makes no sense to most other ppl

My preference for The Cure up to The Head on the Door probably has a lot to do with the fact that the Standing on a Beach compilation was my introduction to the band, alongside The Cure in Orange. So, of course, I spent a lot of time with the albums from that period before moving onto Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me and beyond. I just think that Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me, Disintegration and Wish are all a mish-mash of stunning moments and stuff that feels a bit of a slog.

(x-post to Shakey)

and those albums are also quite disparate! plenty of slog and mish-mash on just about everything except for the first one, though one could argue there was a mish-mash going on stylistically there

The difference is that while Faith (for example) has some atmospheric slow tempo moments such as 'The Funeral Party', they don't go on for 8 minutes and the band don't need to chain several of them together, which is what sinks the back half of Disintegration for me. Early on, they'd have five minutes of slow tempo and then hit you with 'Doubt' ...

Also, the shorter running times make the albums feel much tighter and easier to digest.

assuming you listen to the whole thing throughout all in one sitting? this is just an odd way of evaluating things to me, like we're not talking about a meal, we are talking about music that can be listened to in multiple different ways ... it's not as wtf as saying, "i prefer this style of noodles because they work best for inserting into my urethra" when most people evaluate food based on eating it .... but still ... dunno

i like that the dirges are all stacked on top of each other on disintegration, that’s like why it’s good to me, it’s like you’re slowly sinking into a pool

unpopular opinion but it would be a lesser album if it were shorter

Unpopular, nay, controversial...

the only track on Disintegration i really dislike is "Last Dance" which feels the most dirge-like to me despite only being 5 minutes

i do wish the title track built a bit more intensity as it went along too, it sort of feels like that's what it wants to do but it just stays on the same groove forever. "The Same Deep Water As You" is maybe a little much but it's good to get lost in at the very least

x a lot of p but i feel so understood now thank you

thinking frank ocean is the biggest genius that ever geniused is maybe the most basic music opinion to have in 2019

Yeah, I'm seeing a...LOT of praise lately that I don't get.

Anyway I missed the discussion earlier re the Cure and any imprecations lodged against Disintegration today are wrong and have been denied.

idk I don’t see anybody saying that about Frank, personally

But it is annoying to see people constant pursing their lips about him and being like “he’s not that great” bc I don’t know any other gay black men doing better, or how he could do any better

this is gonna sound nuts but I think he’s really great, without being the best of the best ever

I think there is an evanescence to his approach that is a very effective way of coding the intangibility of queerness and alternative versions of black masculinity, and that this evanescence also defies quantitative analysis— he’s not the best by any means but he’s more important than being “the best”

But dismissals-without-unpacking of his work (and “Moonlight” for that matter) just make me think “jeez what does it take for a black man to get elected president down there? a Harvard doctorate?”

I feel that, but I also get why people wanna push back when Ryan Schreiber says he has “bar none, the single greatest voice in pop music that I’ve heard this decade.”

I think there is an evanescence to his approach that is a very effective way of coding the intangibility of queerness and alternative versions of black masculinity, and that this evanescence also defies quantitative analysis— he’s not the best by any means but he’s more important than being “the best”

More than fair -- and I don't hate his work by any means. But I don't find myself coming back to it either.

...Ryan Schreiber said that? Um I think he's wrong and also missing the point (unless he means voice in the figurative sense)

Final entry in this list:

https://pitchfork.com/features/5-10-15-20/pitchfork-founder-ryan-schreiber-on-the-music-of-his-life/

speaking of Evanescence they fucking rock

xps I’m pretty sure he was talking about his literal voice

my objection comes from that dumbass gq editor’s letter where he asserts that frank will be remembered as the best of his time (this was after he said that writing about music and writing about fashion were the same thing)

Is this the new guy?

yep

There's Frank Ocean, of course. (I think history will exalt Frank Ocean. By which I mean: One day he'll be known as the best, most boundary-shattering and timeless artist of his generation. Duh.)

he’s not the best by any means but he’s more important than being “the best”

otm -- like Saul Bellow

the older the get the more i hate this monomaniacal fixation on who "the best" is. i don't want to go "late capitalism" about it necessarily, but increasingly it seems like if you're not the absolute best in the world at something the general attitude is that you might as well not bother. i say embrace imperfection! it's more interesting. if every album was fucking "dark side of the moon" music wouldn't be worth listening to.

dark side of the moon is very, very far from perfect

Both otm, but it's broader than music.

Sure, Rolling Stonish rankings like the best 100 albums or top 10 guitar solos ever!!!! Has always just been to generate disagreement and therefore attention. Why was this ranked so high, it's criminal that they neglected that, lather, rinse, repeat.

In art generally, in life generally, and in work generally, the pressure to be excellent (or else don't bother) is a stifling force that would kill loads of happy sloppy accidents that upholster the world with lovable bits of mediocrity.

maybe dark side of the moon is perfect, and that's why i don't like it much

Dark Side of the Moon is boring dreck

I was just about to post something like that but wussed out, thanks Οὖτις!

Rushomancy otm, just the idea of ranking stuff anymore I can't really be bothered

on a related point i think the indie ppl loving lofi aesthetics and 'imperfection' more generally were onto something and the criticisms of them were basic and thoughtless (esp when they used some notion fetishism)

This is not an opinion I share - I spotted it on Twitter - but MAN does it belong in this thread.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwzlOhVUYAEEn24.jpg