The Ian Curtis memorial thread

Cps

Xps

I guess that's actually Styrene's friend who's wearing the swastika there, tbf.

Well, first of all, I don't think that's Capt. Sensible. Secondly, that looks like Chrissie Hynde wearing the swastika, Poly Styrene is the mixed race woman in the middle. THirdly, and I hate it to seem as if I'm defending these idiots but Siouxsie and Billy Idol were not big name punk artists when they were traipsing about wearing swastikas - they weren't even in bands.

(xp) I think it's Chrissie Hynde!

Two other sources on Sensible fwiw but yeah, I was hasty about Poly Styrene:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=tAKSNLj1wGEC&pg=PT150&lpg=PT150&dq=captain+sensible+swastika&source=bl&ots=BJs7unYs5M&sig=D05bVD7zms-5Xa-a7dwUZqi5WWQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwijubLo8dTfAhWr6IMKHan_AWUQ6AEwEHoECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=captain%20sensible%20swastika&f=false

https://books.google.ca/books?id=4GN8DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT129&lpg=PT129&dq=captain+sensible+swastika&source=bl&ots=wd9eLslbXj&sig=zFrgY66_X0ZvRenNQBCdPfRJypU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwijubLo8dTfAhWr6IMKHan_AWUQ6AEwD3oECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=captain%20sensible%20swastika&f=false

lou reed's iron cross hair.

I don't know about Capt. Sensible, seems out of character for him, my point was that this was not 'running rampant' on the UK punk scene and was mostly confined to the Sex Pistols and their early entourage - apparently encouraged by McLaren in a spirit of epater les bourgeois.

So where does JD fit into that schema?

Lou Reed said that iron cross haircut was supposed to be a flower lol

Joey Ramone being Jewish would seem to be a knock on his Nazi cred

THirdly, and I hate it to seem as if I'm defending these idiots but Siouxsie and Billy Idol were not big name punk artists when they were traipsing about wearing swastikas - they weren't even in bands.

― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Friday, January 4, 2019 1:43 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also I understand what Tom is saying, there was a point when "punk" was what? 200-300 ppl in London?

(xp) McLaren was Jewish and he was, apparently, handing out swastikas to all and sundry.

So where does JD fit into that schema?

I think partly a clumsy provincial stab at what various arty-farty London poseurs and provocateurs were up to, partly a more morbid interest in a dark subject and, possibly, an interest in the ideology... from Curtis.

I can't really see Hooky reading Mein Kampf tbh.

he'd do lines on it though

Didn’t the Skids also get into some bother for using nazi imagery for the Days In Europa sleeve? Also they had a record called Strength Through Joy and their logo in the early days echoed the SS insignia

“The Aryan thing?” says Jobson. “I thought that sleeve looked great – but I was probably, I dunno, 18 then. But is it in the songs? I don’t think it is. I mean, there’s a song called The Olympian and there’s a sense of Europe… To be fair, I think what had happened is that we’d gone to Europe. We’d gone to Amsterdam and it was such a modern place. Britain during the 70s was still kinda like, post-war, even London – you almost felt like you were still on rations. But Amsterdam felt modern. You had all these Bauhaus buildings and everything – and then you’d go to Germany and it had all been rebuilt and was sparkling and exciting. It made a big impression on me that there was this other place out there that was full of excitement and possibility and much more about the future than the past.”

interestingly, there's a bit about pre-Bromley Contingent UK punks and Nazi fetishism in this Clash bio I just started reading (Marcus Grey's "The Last Gang in Town", which is ok but hardly great, frankly). I had never heard of this London SS nonsense, but Grey frames the Nazi-dabbling as being tied to Bowie/Stones positioning Nazi imagery as both decadent and transgressive, specifically cites Guy Peellaert and Cabaret. Also notes that it was engaged in by Mick Jones and Bernie Rhodes, despite their Jewish heritages.

Sad to read how afraid he was of being mocked by audiences for his epilepsy on the upcoming american tour. Hadn't heard that before. I like to think he could have had a long and healthy life but I don't know how much the best treatment and attention could have done.

I had childhood epilepsy and luckily grew out of it and my son has it as well - it's a lousy deal and being on the deck in a post-ictal daze and not knowing wtf the has just happened is not a good feeling. But I don't think Curtis would have been a particularly nice person if he was still here, his politics sucked arse - he might have even been a prominent covidiot if he was still here now! Pure conjecture like, but I don't think he would have aged like a fine wine.