What Is Rockism ?

Yeah, Morris, I had heard "When the Curtain Falls." Listening again, there are a couple of things that strike me. One is that I really don't find the riffing to be hackneyed pentatonic hard rock stuff. There are a lot of notes in it and there's that one part where the bass plays the same notes. I actually feel like it's going the extra mile a little bit. I like the solo OK.

Someone mentioned sounding like Rush earlier - I hear that in the second part of the verse, too.

He sounds an awful lot like Geddy Lee.

Each song here could be written or played by any of a thousand classic rock cover bands that have standing gigs at sports bars and biker joints across America (the same venues where Greta Van Fleet cut their teeth when they were kids). So why should Greta Van Fleet be the ones signed to Republic and William Morris, because they don’t have bald spots yet? Tons of people in those cover bands play their instruments better than Greta Van Fleet, who are, currently, proficient at best.

it's funny how this is such a rockist argument, obviously a big part of why GVF are famous instead of any randomly selected bar band is because the former are boyband-cute, that seems as legitimate a reason for their success as any unless you feel obliged to judge them by their own standards

the bit about the Darkness seems like total cool-kids stuff, they're similarly derivative but cool enough to signal to the audience that they (and you) are too smart to really fall for this stuff, so they're OK to like

imo GVF is bad not because they're an unoriginal imitation per se, but because they're an unoriginal imitation of Led Zeppelin, who were rubbish, they should try imitating a good band instead, like Slade or Be Bop Deluxe - my review

Lol the Darkness was so terrible

GVF would be so much more unbearable if they were doing that kind of smirky, 'knowing' Darkness-esque thing of constant signposting that they are being ironic

the darkness wouldn't be well received by pitchfork in 2018

led zeppelin is good though by the way. they have this song that's called "when the levee breaks"

it occurred to me that the dead sara record from 5 or 6 years ago is probably the upper limit of what gvf could conceivably accomplish and no one really rode for those guys...hmm i wonder why

Earlier this year, even Robert Plant spoke out about his feelings on Great Van Fleet, saying, "They are Led Zeppelin I. Beautiful little singer, I hate him! He borrowed it from somebody I know very well!" in a sarcastic manner.

Speaking to NME, Greta Van Fleet's singer Josh Kiszka shared his thoughts on what Plant said.

"It was kind of strange to watch, but it was quite flattering. I think he likes the stuff! That's good, to kinda get that seal of approval. He's one of the most fantastic singers ever. I think what he was taking from was those black singers like Wilson Pickett and Otis Redding. It was just his interpretation, and I think I've got this separate interpretation. There are similarities, and I see it, so it was pretty amazing that he mentioned it."

the bit about the Darkness seems like total cool-kids stuff, they're similarly derivative but cool enough to signal to the audience that they (and you) are too smart to really fall for this stuff, so they're OK to like

Nah, you’re taking an aesthetic argument and pretending it’s sociological (to paraphrase Treeship), so you can rip on it.

xp JFC that child is dumb as rocks

i think it's bad form for robert plant to weigh in

robert plant correctly dissed gvf and supported yoyoka who is the led zeppelin homage the world actually needs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cozHT9QaFJo

xp
normally, i'd agree, but one listen to the first 15 seconds of "highway tune" kind of demands a response. that was the first one i listened to, because it was their most listened to song on spotify. but it's weird, because the song is from their first album, From the Fires (2017), even though the pitchfork review twice refers to Anthem of the Peaceful Army (think about that title for a second) as their "debut"

From the Fires “is a double EP, consisting of eight songs; four being newly recorded by the band, four songs originally found from their prior EP, Black Smoke Rising.”

(That’s how the band/label seems to classify it, anyway.)

Presto/Roll the Bones-era Rush also sort of fits in with the lste ips/early 90s AOR sound I was thinking of, I guess. It wouldn't have occurred to me to call GVF a blues rock band based on the songs I know.

*late 80s. Maybe Counterparts is closer, though?

Oh jeez, dont say this sounds like Counterparts. I'm gonna have to listen to this record and then wallow in self-loathing.

I haven't heard the new album anyway. Not saying any of it is as good as Rush.

led zeppelin is good though by the way. they have this song that's called "when the levee breaks"

― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, October 23, 2018 11:14 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've heard it but tell me more

you haven't heard led zep until you wear an unbuttoned denim vest and your sweaty chest hair smells like shit

"If its problems are not immediately obvious to you, I got nothing."

There you have Rockism nicely reduced to a syllogism.

https://i.imgur.com/UxDmSUJ.jpg

xp hell yeah

I think if I had seen these guys live as a teenager I probably would have dug it

If I saw them live now I think it would largely be a matter of what scene they played. If they played a big stage at a stoner festival I'd be like get outta here with that weak, derivative bs. But if they played to 30 half-interested families on a tiny stage at a county fair I'd probably find them endearing and happily clap along.

I think the annoying part is that there's a lot of good rock music out there, retro rock too, and this is really nowhere near top tier, but for reasons that are not completely clear to me (perhaps a mixture of marketing and their radio-friendly blandness) these guys are getting a ton of attention, and so when you read something like that youtube comment:

'I'm a classical guitarist, so I don't keep up with the latest rock or metal, but these young guys are the first thing to catch my ear in a long time with high energy, well written and well played infectious licks. The Kiszka boys have got it going.'

it's like, well no, you don't keep up, and though I'm v happy you were now exposed to this and enjoyed it, I hope it works as a gateway to some really rawking zep/rush-inspired bands, cause this is like the Domino's Pizza of rock and there is some seriously tasty pizza out there

if you want to hear Zep worship pushed in a cool direction I recommend, as kurt schwitters once recommended to me, Danava's Unonou album

here. the last track is amazing and also a zep rip-off apparently

https://youtu.be/x-cvvpiqL-w

Rockism is remembering the names of the records

If I saw them live now I think it would largely be a matter of what scene they played. If they played a big stage at a stoner festival I'd be like get outta here with that weak, derivative bs. But if they played to 30 half-interested families on a tiny stage at a county fair I'd probably find them endearing and happily clap along.

i am so glad i will never have to go to bonnaroo

people have made the point that lots of kids still go a Zep phase, so it makes sense that there's a band like GVF - do kids still go through a Doors phase? it would be cool if there was a successful band that's like GVF but for the Doors instead of Zep, with a singer who looks like Bruce McCulloch in that Kids In The Hall skit

it occurred to me that the dead sara record from 5 or 6 years ago is probably the upper limit of what gvf could conceivably accomplish and no one really rode for those guys...hmm i wonder why

engagement with the details of the music can miss the wood for the trees and a review like that has its own use and value. there is no clear distinction between aesthetics and social commentary, its like asking to take the politics out of an issue or insisting we can just rationally debate the facts

I'm interested in "retro-fetishism" being used in a pejorative way in that review. What's the difference between retro-fetishism being "overly precious", and being a clearly studied and loving tribute? I mean, a lot of the music Pitchfork has loved over the last few years could reasonably be described in both ways. It just seems like that, in this cultural moment, white male boomer-canon classic rock is the 'wrong' (read: not hip) retro to be fetishising preciously. I feel like a blatant tribute/rip-off to late 80s Janet Jackson would probably get BNM for doing basically the same thing.

I'm sure this band will be fine or whatever - they seem popular outside of internet music nerd circles. But it seems pretty transparent to me that this review was, as someone said above, written as brand positioning for Pitchfork, and was approached without an open mind. It kind of makes me want to root for them a little bit. But whatever, I think this review says more about Zeppelin's (and 60s-70s blues rock) changing place in the popular music canon as opposed to Whether The Greta Van Fleet Album Is Good or Bad.

I mostly agree with this, but where do War on Drugs and Black Keys fit into this rejection of white male boomer aesthetics? Pfork rides pretty hard for those bands.

surely not Black Keys??

Yeah, I don't really recall them fucking with Black Keys that much past the mid-2000s. War on Drugs is slightly different - I think they have a later point of retro reference than GVF's blues rock cribbing, where they're more influenced by heartland/synth rock of the Springsteen ilk. Springsteen is still riding high on a critical career victory lap that seems to have regained steam around the start of this decade, and so I think bands directly influenced by him will get a pass for wearing their influence on their sleeve. It helps that compared to most rock stars Bruce is squeaky clean on a moral level, which Zeppelin certainly aren't.

the vocalist for this band mostly sucks because he's such an impersonator that he has to contort his voice to do things it isn't really built to do, which is why it sounds competent, but doesn't have the 'body' of Plant's voice.

Like his intonation in his lower register is clearly manipulated to be similar to Plant's and as such it sounds weird, like karaoke, and his high pitched wails are reedier.

be amazed if this kid doesn't have vocal cord nodules in like....a year.

re: bands who do retro better, the string of pre-hiatus Graveyard albums comes to mind, as well as the first Blues Pills.

there's lots of good retro cos mostly it manages to evoke an era rather than a specific band and adds its own flavor to it.

the vocalist for this band mostly sucks because he's such an impersonator that he has to contort his voice to do things it isn't really built to do, which is why it sounds competent, but doesn't have the 'body' of Plant's voice.

Like his intonation in his lower register is clearly manipulated to be similar to Plant's and as such it sounds weird, like karaoke, and his high pitched wails are reedier.

be amazed if this kid doesn't have vocal cord nodules in like....a year.

That makes sense, yeah.

Wolf People's Steeple some kinda recent watermark as well, in terms of deliberately retro sounds that are somehow not completely played out

I hadn't heard about Dead Sara getting a WWE plug but that's great news, they could use a lucky break or seven

These Led Zeppelin comparisons always make me wonder if the listener has ever really heard the band. In musical terms they have more in common with the Meters or Pentangle or Eddie Cochrane or whoever than any of these caterwauling+riffage! bands.

engagement with the details of the music can miss the wood for the trees and a review like that has its own use and value. there is no clear distinction between aesthetics and social commentary, its like asking to take the politics out of an issue or insisting we can just rationally debate the facts

― ogmor, Wednesday, October 24, 2018 3:11 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i roundly disagree with this but i would

i would say in this particular case though the band’s music is so shallow that i’d have trouble describing it with any depth

but in normal situations: you can have both

xps I also don't get the persistent tipping of When The Levee Breaks. Is this mainly by people who aren't nuts about Zeppelin? I mean the production is sublime but to me it hardly seems representative of the band's strengths

I'm interested in "retro-fetishism" being used in a pejorative way in that review. What's the difference between retro-fetishism being "overly precious", and being a clearly studied and loving tribute? I mean, a lot of the music Pitchfork has loved over the last few years could reasonably be described in both ways. It just seems like that, in this cultural moment, white male boomer-canon classic rock is the 'wrong' (read: not hip) retro to be fetishising preciously. I feel like a blatant tribute/rip-off to late 80s Janet Jackson would probably get BNM for doing basically the same thing.

I'm sure this band will be fine or whatever - they seem popular outside of internet music nerd circles. But it seems pretty transparent to me that this review was, as someone said above, written as brand positioning for Pitchfork, and was approached without an open mind. It kind of makes me want to root for them a little bit. But whatever, I think this review says more about Zeppelin's (and 60s-70s blues rock) changing place in the popular music canon as opposed to Whether The Greta Van Fleet Album Is Good or Bad.

― triggercut, Wednesday, October 24, 2018 6:05 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm cannibalizing my own FB post here but Pitchfork is on board with giving Best New Music to Car Seat Headrest who are a slavish a poor imitation of workaday 90s indie rock as Greta Van Fleet is of Led Zep

here. the last track is amazing and also a zep rip-off apparently

https://youtu.be/x-cvvpiqL-w

― imago, Wednesday, October 24, 2018 2:40 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is good!!!! but really sounds nothing like led zep. imago go on Chapo listen to Physical Graffiti