What Is Rockism ?

The p4k review doesn't seem to want to believe that there could be a corny derivative band that happens to be successful due to algorithms, it must be that they were designed with the algorithms in mind as a clever marketing strategy.

I mean, I feel like a lot of pop rock acts are probably focus grouped and meticulously groomed by marketing teams, but the narrative in this case seems much more conspiratorial. Plausible I guess?

xxxpost this algorithm thing is a bit of a weird read to me. There's tons of dance and electronic and metal, etc. that sounds almost exactly like a bunch of other music and fits nicely onto playlists alongside it. Maybe the crime is in emulating a sound that was never successfully copied, or that LZ was Original and therefore must not be copied.

Someone is eventually going to use the word "authenticity" and then ILM will get very upset

if anything the review doesn't take the algorithm thing to its conclusion which is that i'm guessing the industry is full-force behind these guys because it is something they can conceivably sell to boomers who are sick of buying reissues of neil young's catalog for the 15th time.

The Greta Van Fleet album is bad. (I listened to it front to back this morning, so I know.) But the Pitchfork review is not about whether the album is good or bad. It's about social positioning. Greta Van Fleet are Not Our Kind, and their music is for Those Other People.

― grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, October 23, 2018 11:59 AM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

100% otm

good to know that both of you are not like those other people who sneer at Those Other People

Someone is eventually going to use the word "authenticity" and then ILM will get very upset

Ha, I was thinking of posting "so I'm clear, the problem with this popular band is that they are commercial and inauthentic?".

I guess the idea is that blues rock itself places such great importance on authenticity, so it’s fair to judge them by those standards.

blues rock also places a lot of importance on sounding pretty much the same as your heroes

idk i just finished a listen-through and based on 'anthem' alone i think it's fair to conclude that, authenticity aside, these dudes are just fuckin corny

Fair enough, I’ve never heard GVF. Are they anything like this Joe Bonamassa dude that the Youtube algorithms insist on inserting in my feeds?

I honestly do not get why, in 2018, anyone would expect a self-styled retro classic rock band to be anything other than this. Nobody is coming to this group expecting any sort of exciting innovation.

The Pfork review is good (IMO) because it talks specifically about aspects of their music (and "presentation") that are bad, and details why they are bad. It's not hyperbolic and ad hominem like an early-2000s Pfork takedown (opening paragraph aside, maybe).

I also like how the writer spends a paragraph contrasting GVF w/The Darkness, because I have also been thinking about The Darkness as a reference point, and trying to pin down how/why they were different and "worked" (this writer nails it, I think).

the most objectionable thing about this band is that the rhythm section are complete stiffs

JFC yes

My perception of this band will forever be colored by the time an old friend tried to hype them up to me and used the fact that Matt Drudge is a superfan as ...a selling point?

Whoa

personally what i'd like to read is a review engaging with how good the new twenty one pilots album is

― princess of hell (BradNelson), Tuesday, October 23, 2018 12:01 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-album-reviews/review-twenty-one-pilots-still-stressed-more-cohesive-on-trench-733620/

thank you whiney that's exactly what i wanted <3

It just occurred to me that, in a strange twist, you could make a case that GVF hate is more rockist than GVF love

― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Sunday, October 21, 2018 10:02 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

OTM! it absolutely is. Rockism = perceived authenticity. GVF are not only 'inauthentic' in a rockist's eyes, they flaunt it.

How do you figure? The band presents themselves as super "authentic."

Right, in quotes. The actual band may be that deluded, but they're not marketed that way. They are aimed squarely at older baby boomers, their kids, Midwest radio, and licensing for people that can't afford LZ.

So glad I feel no obligation to listen to this.

I'm with Brad re: takedowns. If something is so horrible, why are we wasting our precious time trying to engage?

There should be a Greta Van Fleet tribute band.

I just wanna respond to a couple of things from the perspective of someone who's actually worked for a major record label (Atlantic, 2012-2014).

I mean, I feel like a lot of pop rock acts are probably focus grouped and meticulously groomed by marketing teams, but the narrative in this case seems much more conspiratorial. Plausible I guess?

if anything the review doesn't take the algorithm thing to its conclusion which is that i'm guessing the industry is full-force behind these guys because it is something they can conceivably sell to boomers who are sick of buying reissues of neil young's catalog for the 15th time.

There's no such thing as focus group marketing for rock bands. There are label marketing meetings, where the A&R guys say "We've signed this band, because they've sold out X size venues in X number of states, they were on X package tour and did X number of merch sales per night, their video they made has X number of YouTube views. I've seen them, they're really good live and they've got a couple of songs we can take to radio. They're being managed by (agency that manages a half dozen other acts signed to the label)." The marketing team (which included me) says, "Great! What's their story? What can we sell about them?" And there's a one-hour discussion about that, about who's going to write their bio, when there will be new photos of the band that can be seeded to the press, who's producing the album, etc., etc., etc.

There's no conspiracy. Nobody knows anything. You know how I can guarantee that nobody knows anything? Because the A&R guy I worked with legitimately thought that Kvelertak - a band that mixes classic rock riffs with black metal blast beats, and sings/screams entirely in guttural Norwegian - was gonna break on US rock radio.

this is probably the best thing for Greta Van Fleet, a 1.6 is way more beneficial than some lukewarm 6.1

and they were too on the nose to get any critical love so they might as well have something to circle the wagons about, and their fans can feel like they are standing up to snooty hipsters...they can basically play to the same crowd that keep Foo Fighters and Jack White doing great box office

I'm with Brad re: takedowns. If something is so horrible, why are we wasting our precious time trying to engage?

We're bored at work? LOL

it's true that you're who the content machine is for

There should be a Greta Van Fleet tribute band.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat)

Meta Van Fleet

So glad I feel no obligation to listen to this.

I'm with Brad re: takedowns. If something is so horrible, why are we wasting our precious time trying to engage?

― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, October 23, 2018 1:39 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is different than something like the Travistan review, which ruined that dude's career. GVF are here to stay, at least as long as Wolfmother did in the mid-00s. their success is already assured. it is social positioning, but they're also a very easy target.

I mean, it's a deserved, well-considered negative review, not some hacky hit piece. Should negative reviews not be written?

Wolfmother put out an album in 2016, and a single (called, I am not joking, "Happy Wolfmother's Day") in May of this year. Based on that one track, they're less classic rock and more stoner/doom than they used to be.

they’re still booking 1000-cap rooms, or were as recently as last year

o glad I feel no obligation to listen to this.

I'm with Brad re: takedowns. If something is so horrible, why are we wasting our precious time trying to engage?

― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, October 23, 2018 1:39 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is different than something like the Travistan review, which ruined that dude's career. GVF are here to stay, at least as long as Wolfmother did in the mid-00s. their success is already assured. it is social positioning, but they're also a very easy target.

― flappy bird, Tuesday, October 23, 2018 12:48 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they honestly did him a favor probably, he got out of indie rock with enough time to have a good career in programming

So glad I feel no obligation to listen to this.

I'm with Brad re: takedowns. If something is so horrible, why are we wasting our precious time trying to engage?

― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, October 23, 2018 1:39 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it does seem like there would be little overlap between GVF's audience and Pitchfork's readership. I'm imagining the former's listener base would skew younger with a smattering of older compared to Pfork's collegiate/post-collegiate sweet spot. it makes more sense for The Ringer to cover them as a pop phenomenon, especially since they approached it as thinkpiece fodder rather than a straight-up album review. perhaps Pfork should have relegated this to The Pitch.

Hopefully these guys will sit for an October interview, and we'll learn all about the beer they like to drink on tour.

you could say the same thing about the Jet review in 2006. I think the review is aimed at people like us

xp

Judging by the scope of their "Best of the (Decade)" lists, Pfork seems to now view its scope as encompassing all popular music. Tho it's true they don't seem to have covered anything else on the top 10 here (until you get to Alice in Chains): https://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-mainstream-rock-tracks

(ed. - pls substitute "mandate" for the 2nd instance of "scope" - thx)

After reading the Pitchfork review I am willing to like this band just so I can hate the review a little bit more.

double reverse payola

only thing I ever remember about Greta Van Fleet is how the singer's voice does not match his face. he looks like he's lip syncing all the time.

Stirring conclusion to this RS feature:

“That’s the thing that destroys a lot of good art now: chasing trends,” the guitarist says. “There’s comfort in knowing that you’ll make that money. The record company will hire writers to make sure they see the a return on their investment because — structurally, scientifically — the song will work. It’s catchy. It’s a mathematical fact that people will perceive it one way or another. That’s why it’s difficult in our world to cut through. When you are doing something truthful, it’s easy for someone to say, ‘That sounds like this band from the Sixties and Seventies. It’s the throwback sound.’ In that response is the answer: That is because music meant something during that period — a lot more than it does now. It was done by the artist for the artist. It was music for the people.

“But rock & roll has become a novelty,” he continues. “It doesn’t have the essence of what it was — its greatness. People say it’s dead now. But it’s a minority. It’s an endangered species. It’s gonna take young guys like us in our generation to see that.”

That's the stuff.

someone give these kids a Don Cab record or something. actually, better make it U.S. Maple

25-year-old influences vs 50-year-old influences

When reading that quote, keep this image in mind for best results.

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/files/2018/05/Greta-Van-Fleet-Christopher-Polk.jpg

xps

“It doesn’t have the essence of what it was — its greatness. People say it’s dead now. But it’s a minority. It’s an endangered species. It’s gonna take young guys like us in our generation to see that.”

chilling

thank you, young airheads, for opening my eyes. rock is less popular than ever before. how did i not see this???

Fwiw my wife is a huge Zep fan and generally more of a rockist than I am. She merely laughed when I sent her 'Highway Tune'.