I don't understand what I said wrong, but I'm really sorry
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 14:56 (five years ago) link
all the 70s lists full of Krautrock and Dub Reggae and Punk probably look pretty weird to people who spent the decade listening to Poco and Linda Ronstadt.
― President Keyes, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 14:56 (five years ago) link
(this is serious -- I genuinely have no idea what people want from these lists. it seems like no matter what people pick, it's wrong, which is incredibly demoralizing)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:00 (five years ago) link
hey I didn't even read it! I don't care about lists.
I like arguing about what albums are good though
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:03 (five years ago) link
Personally, I'd like to never see another one as long as I live. Because these ignorant, arrogant, myopic circle jerks being accepted as any kind of portrait of a/the culture makes me want to go on a birthdate-based killing spree.
But I'm having a bad month, so ignore me.
― grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:04 (five years ago) link
please do tell me which music I should like in order to deserve not to be killed
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:05 (five years ago) link
Christian Rock
― President Keyes, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:05 (five years ago) link
(I also don't understand why what I said was bad enough to get a "god fuck this place" but "I want to kill everyone involved with this at least of a certain age" isn't)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:07 (five years ago) link
no AOR/MOR like REO, Air Supply, Rick Springfield, Styx, Bonnie Tyler, Bryan Adams, John Cougar Mellencampm, Christopher Cross, Foreigner
almost all of these acts are fucking awful
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:50 AM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
like if you lived through it that's fine and I'm sorry but I don't have to
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:51 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
loool otm
― flopson, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:08 (five years ago) link
President Keyes otm, thread needs more jams for the lamb
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:08 (five years ago) link
The Joshua Tree is on there.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:12 (five years ago) link
It’s largely a “cool music” list, what can you say (^^Joshua Tree and a few others notwithstanding)
― stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:13 (five years ago) link
I think ums was pretty up-front about his post - that this list is one thing (a list of music from the 80s that certain people think is cool right now) as opposed to another (a list of music that was actually significant in the 80s)
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:17 (five years ago) link
I just... don't know what the point of saying that is? again, it's not trying to be a list of the music significant in the '80s. there are lists for that already. and more to the point, posting something like that in a discussion that largely consists of people complaining about omissions/inclusions is inherently going to seem like another complaint about omissions/inclusions
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:19 (five years ago) link
What's the difference?
― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:20 (five years ago) link
What was significant in 1989 and 2002 is less significant in 2018. That's the nature of history and changing tastes among critics and artists.
― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:21 (five years ago) link
xpost Er, impact?
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:22 (five years ago) link
the list is obv trying to say something about the 80s, otherwise why limit it to a specific decade in the first place, but then in a way it fails because it's more interested in finding the best/coolest music than the music most representative of the decade
― niels, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:23 (five years ago) link
in a way it fails because it's more interested in finding the best/coolest music than the music most representative of the decade
but... that's... the literal point of the list
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:23 (five years ago) link
if someone asks you what your favorite food is you don't consult the national restaurant association to figure out what the most popular lunch item is in 2018, you say what your favorite food is
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:24 (five years ago) link
It's gonna be tragic when the 2010s list comes out and completely snubs Foster the People and Imagine Dragons
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:24 (five years ago) link
The counterpoint is if the list doesn’t really “reflect the times” as they were lived, doesn’t the “1980s” aspect feel kinda arbitrary?
― stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:26 (five years ago) link
Would the list work if it were not ranked? Why rank the albums at all?
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:27 (five years ago) link
yeah, exactly, that's the other thing -- this kind of complaint is never wielded in the opposite direction. there is no huge sledgehammer of moral force wielded against non-millennials for not listing the No. 1 album of 2018 as Post Malone
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:27 (five years ago) link
What if it was just chronological by release date?
― stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:26 AM (twenty-eight seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
take it up with the person who decided 10 was a round number
it's kinda funny how looking through this list it has so little to do with so much of the actual music that was *everywhere* in the 80sno AOR/MOR like REO, Air Supply, Rick Springfield, Styx, Bonnie Tyler, Bryan Adams, John Cougar Mellencampm, Christopher Cross, Foreignerno hair metal Warrant, Ratt, Def Leppard, Cinderella, Quiet Riot, Whitesnake etcetc even Van Halen (unless I missed 1984)no new wave one/two hits like Cutting Crew, Fixx, Kim Wilde, Simple Minds, Wang Chung, Men at Workno Eliminator by ZZ Top, no thrash except Metallicano Police Synchronicityno Dire Straits Brothers in Armsnone of the huge soundtracks that were so dominant like Top Gun, Footloose, Dirty Dancing, Pretty in Pink, Flashdanceno boomer comeback stuff like Henley, Raitt, Heart, Boston, Aerosmith, Genesis/Collinsno pop/R&B (except Madonna, Whitney) stuff like Paula Abdul, Bobby Brown, Bananarama
no AOR/MOR like REO, Air Supply, Rick Springfield, Styx, Bonnie Tyler, Bryan Adams, John Cougar Mellencampm, Christopher Cross, Foreignerno hair metal Warrant, Ratt, Def Leppard, Cinderella, Quiet Riot, Whitesnake etcetc even Van Halen (unless I missed 1984)no new wave one/two hits like Cutting Crew, Fixx, Kim Wilde, Simple Minds, Wang Chung, Men at Workno Eliminator by ZZ Top, no thrash except Metallicano Police Synchronicityno Dire Straits Brothers in Armsnone of the huge soundtracks that were so dominant like Top Gun, Footloose, Dirty Dancing, Pretty in Pink, Flashdanceno boomer comeback stuff like Henley, Raitt, Heart, Boston, Aerosmith, Genesis/Collinsno pop/R&B (except Madonna, Whitney) stuff like Paula Abdul, Bobby Brown, Bananarama
This was largely true even of critics' lists that were published in the 80s: https://www.listchallenges.com/rolling-stone-100-best-albums-of-the-eighties
Or take Pazz & Jop from the year of Slippery When Wet, Whitney Houston, Brothers in Arms, and No Jacket Required: https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pjres86.php
― The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:28 (five years ago) link
katherine you don't need to defend the list, I don't think anyone has an issue with it
― niels, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:29 (five years ago) link
it's just funny that the zeitgeist can get kinda lost in the crate digging
If anything some of those subgenres and whatnot could have used a sidebar. Because Van Halen's 1984 is awesome. (And had lots of hits, for those who count such things.)
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:30 (five years ago) link
I remember reading that RS list as a 10yo rock fan and being startled that the #1 rock album of the past decade was by some band that I'd never heard and no one I knew listened to. xps
― The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:30 (five years ago) link
haha I think that issue was the first RS issue I ever bought/read
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:31 (five years ago) link
If you just want ant to recreate the sound of the era you've got historical billboard charts for that
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:31 (five years ago) link
and if you just want to know what the best music is there's http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/
― niels, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:35 (five years ago) link
guess what comprises that site's lists tho
― lowercase (eric), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:36 (five years ago) link
In the span of a few posts we went from ILM considering its own poll of the 80s where Daydream Nation and Nation of Millions are banned, to slagging Pitchfork for only looking for the “coolest” music.
― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:37 (five years ago) link
I haven't looked at this list and don't plan to, but I would like to say one thing about this observation:
This is kind of equivalent to the 70s though, isn't it? On similarly-minded best of the 70s lists, we don't see much love for these kinds of standard pop / rock bands. Granted, that stuff wasn't as prevalent in the 70s, but when was the last time 'Afternoon Delight' received any sort of retroactive love? It's been a while; and with good reason.
no hair metal Warrant, Ratt, Def Leppard, Cinderella, Quiet Riot, Whitesnake etcetc even Van Halen (unless I missed 1984)
This is probably for the best that these kinds of bands are left out. Overwhelmingly, these bands were not very unique, nor all that interesting. If the list was supposed to be "most popular" then their absence would be a valid discrepancy.
no new wave one/two hits like Cutting Crew, Fixx, Kim Wilde, Simple Minds, Wang Chung, Men at Work
Definitely agree that Simple Minds and Men at Work should have had at least a little representation. But again, with a lot of these types of bands, they just weren't that remarkable besides the big single.
no Eliminator by ZZ Top
And thank fuck for that.
no Police Synchronicity
That's pretty inexcusable. My pick would have been Zenyatta Mondatta though.
no Dire Straits Brothers in Arms
Again, most popular ≠ best. While I do agree that Dire Straits deserve a mention for earlier albums, Brothers in Arms has not aged well. My pick would have been Love Over Gold.
none of the huge soundtracks that were so dominant like Top Gun, Footloose, Dirty Dancing, Pretty in Pink, Flashdance
Most popular ≠ best.
no boomer comeback stuff like Henley, Raitt, Heart, Boston, Aerosmith, Genesis/Collins
Of the ones you mentioned, I'm glad that none were represented. Did Tom Petty have much of a showing in this list? If not, he should have. I know he's not a 60s guy, but I definitely include him in that mode of bands. I mean, he was in the Traveling Wilburies.
no pop/R&B (except Madonna, Whitney) stuff like Paula Abdul, Bobby Brown, Bananarama
What about the early New Jack Swing stuff, like Guy? That stuff definitely needed to be repped for.
Also, let's not forget that the 70s list they did a few years back had absolutely zero prog rock on it. So, yeah. That's what we're dealing with when discussing pfork lists.
In general, yeah: I'm over these kinds of lists. I know that most of the bands / albums I hold really dear to me will never make one of these lists, so my interest is very little. Anymore, it's just not that much fun when you basically know what the top picks are going to be. Further, it's really taking the fun out of it when a site like pfork starts to renege on their old lists and revise. That just takes a lot of the earnestness and genuineness out of it. Definitely feels at this point like they're just trying to appease an audience. "Hey, don't like this list? It's okay, wait a few years and we'll do another one."
― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:38 (five years ago) link
"Kinda funny" isn't really slagging off, tbf. xp
― The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:39 (five years ago) link
Personally I’m stoked on listening to stuff on the list I hadn’t heard before, and I’m stoked on most of this thread’s discussion on what’s missing. There is something fruitful on all that. But the horse jockeying stuff is irrelevant. The ultimate goal of the list and the attendant discussion is to expand the canon. No need to besmirch the site or it’s writers.
― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:41 (five years ago) link
ums was not saying this
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:42 (five years ago) link
Yeah I don’t think (most) anyone here is “slagging” or besmirching?
― stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:42 (five years ago) link
i for one tried to vote for the guy s/t bc it's 100 percent amazing (i'd vote for it over don't be cruel even) but like... it doesn't have that kind of momentum among the majority of ppl who contributed to this list
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:43 (five years ago) link
when was the last time 'Afternoon Delight' received any sort of retroactive love?
July 10, 2018: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2018/07/10/skyrockets-in-flight-afternoon-delight-the-story-behind-starland-vocal-bands-one-big-hit/?utm_term=.9ad80728c46b
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:45 (five years ago) link
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:00 AM (thirty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
As a music critic you should know that once something is published it is fair game to criticize it. Plus, every time you establish a canon and rejects some people's favorite music you are going to find yourself having to justify your choices. I don't think those things are complicated or controversial.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:45 (five years ago) link
no Eliminator by ZZ TopAnd thank fuck for that.
FIGHTING WORDS
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:46 (five years ago) link
I know that, but there's a difference between being criticized and always being criticized with no counterbalance
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:46 (five years ago) link
ums didn't even say those albums should be on the list
― niels, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:47 (five years ago) link
Is Pitchfork going to post the individual ballots? I would be interested in seeing any ILX posters' ballots.
― jmm, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:47 (five years ago) link
FIGHTING WORDSirl lol
― niels, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:48 (five years ago) link
yeah but eliminator should be on the list
xps
― guardians of the gums: i am tooth (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 15:48 (five years ago) link