pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

Traveling Wilburys shoulda made tha list

no AOR/MOR like REO, Air Supply, Rick Springfield, Styx, Bonnie Tyler, Bryan Adams, John Cougar Mellencampm, Christopher Cross, Foreigner

almost all of these acts are fucking awful

like if you lived through it that's fine and I'm sorry but I don't have to

ums is right that these lists aren't really about what was actually representative of any given decade.

I don't think you could find a single person in 1990 who would have actually listened to/been familiar with all 200 of the albums that placed.

(also, most of that music is still everywhere, via oldies/'80s/JACK-FM type stations, so The Youngs probably actually have heard it everywhere, constantly, and can report that it is in fact bad)

like if you lived through it that's fine and I'm sorry but I don't have to

I bet Dr. Casino could start some listening threads for you so you could suffer like the rest of us did

katherine that has nothing to do with the point of my post if you read it - i went out of my way to say so

i even specifically said i didn't take issue with the quality of the stuff that was on and in fact i own and listen to a great deal of the list

i was just noting that it's interesting, cfe my thought about the 60s

i was talking about lists in general, sorry if REO makes u angry

I'm not sure what the point of your post is, then -- this isn't a list of the songs most popular in the '80s and never attempted to be. if you want that just go look up the Billboard charts

god fuck this place

I don't understand what I said wrong, but I'm really sorry

all the 70s lists full of Krautrock and Dub Reggae and Punk probably look pretty weird to people who spent the decade listening to Poco and Linda Ronstadt.

(this is serious -- I genuinely have no idea what people want from these lists. it seems like no matter what people pick, it's wrong, which is incredibly demoralizing)

hey I didn't even read it! I don't care about lists.

I like arguing about what albums are good though

(this is serious -- I genuinely have no idea what people want from these lists. it seems like no matter what people pick, it's wrong, which is incredibly demoralizing)

Personally, I'd like to never see another one as long as I live. Because these ignorant, arrogant, myopic circle jerks being accepted as any kind of portrait of a/the culture makes me want to go on a birthdate-based killing spree.

But I'm having a bad month, so ignore me.

please do tell me which music I should like in order to deserve not to be killed

Christian Rock

(I also don't understand why what I said was bad enough to get a "god fuck this place" but "I want to kill everyone involved with this at least of a certain age" isn't)

no AOR/MOR like REO, Air Supply, Rick Springfield, Styx, Bonnie Tyler, Bryan Adams, John Cougar Mellencampm, Christopher Cross, Foreigner

almost all of these acts are fucking awful

― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:50 AM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like if you lived through it that's fine and I'm sorry but I don't have to

― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, September 11, 2018 10:51 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

loool otm

President Keyes otm, thread needs more jams for the lamb

The Joshua Tree is on there.

It’s largely a “cool music” list, what can you say (^^Joshua Tree and a few others notwithstanding)

I think ums was pretty up-front about his post - that this list is one thing (a list of music from the 80s that certain people think is cool right now) as opposed to another (a list of music that was actually significant in the 80s)

I just... don't know what the point of saying that is? again, it's not trying to be a list of the music significant in the '80s. there are lists for that already. and more to the point, posting something like that in a discussion that largely consists of people complaining about omissions/inclusions is inherently going to seem like another complaint about omissions/inclusions

I think ums was pretty up-front about his post - that this list is one thing (a list of music from the 80s that certain people think is cool right now) as opposed to another (a list of music that was actually significant in the 80s)

What's the difference?

What was significant in 1989 and 2002 is less significant in 2018. That's the nature of history and changing tastes among critics and artists.

xpost Er, impact?

the list is obv trying to say something about the 80s, otherwise why limit it to a specific decade in the first place, but then in a way it fails because it's more interested in finding the best/coolest music than the music most representative of the decade

in a way it fails because it's more interested in finding the best/coolest music than the music most representative of the decade

but... that's... the literal point of the list

if someone asks you what your favorite food is you don't consult the national restaurant association to figure out what the most popular lunch item is in 2018, you say what your favorite food is

It's gonna be tragic when the 2010s list comes out and completely snubs Foster the People and Imagine Dragons

The counterpoint is if the list doesn’t really “reflect the times” as they were lived, doesn’t the “1980s” aspect feel kinda arbitrary?

Would the list work if it were not ranked? Why rank the albums at all?

yeah, exactly, that's the other thing -- this kind of complaint is never wielded in the opposite direction. there is no huge sledgehammer of moral force wielded against non-millennials for not listing the No. 1 album of 2018 as Post Malone

What if it was just chronological by release date?

The counterpoint is if the list doesn’t really “reflect the times” as they were lived, doesn’t the “1980s” aspect feel kinda arbitrary?

― stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Tuesday, September 11, 2018 11:26 AM (twenty-eight seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

take it up with the person who decided 10 was a round number

it's kinda funny how looking through this list it has so little to do with so much of the actual music that was *everywhere* in the 80s

no AOR/MOR like REO, Air Supply, Rick Springfield, Styx, Bonnie Tyler, Bryan Adams, John Cougar Mellencampm, Christopher Cross, Foreigner
no hair metal Warrant, Ratt, Def Leppard, Cinderella, Quiet Riot, Whitesnake etcetc even Van Halen (unless I missed 1984)
no new wave one/two hits like Cutting Crew, Fixx, Kim Wilde, Simple Minds, Wang Chung, Men at Work
no Eliminator by ZZ Top, no thrash except Metallica
no Police Synchronicity
no Dire Straits Brothers in Arms
none of the huge soundtracks that were so dominant like Top Gun, Footloose, Dirty Dancing, Pretty in Pink, Flashdance
no boomer comeback stuff like Henley, Raitt, Heart, Boston, Aerosmith, Genesis/Collins
no pop/R&B (except Madonna, Whitney) stuff like Paula Abdul, Bobby Brown, Bananarama

This was largely true even of critics' lists that were published in the 80s: https://www.listchallenges.com/rolling-stone-100-best-albums-of-the-eighties

Or take Pazz & Jop from the year of Slippery When Wet, Whitney Houston, Brothers in Arms, and No Jacket Required: https://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pjres86.php

katherine you don't need to defend the list, I don't think anyone has an issue with it

it's just funny that the zeitgeist can get kinda lost in the crate digging

If anything some of those subgenres and whatnot could have used a sidebar. Because Van Halen's 1984 is awesome. (And had lots of hits, for those who count such things.)

I remember reading that RS list as a 10yo rock fan and being startled that the #1 rock album of the past decade was by some band that I'd never heard and no one I knew listened to. xps

haha I think that issue was the first RS issue I ever bought/read

If you just want ant to recreate the sound of the era you've got historical billboard charts for that

and if you just want to know what the best music is there's http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/

guess what comprises that site's lists tho

In the span of a few posts we went from ILM considering its own poll of the 80s where Daydream Nation and Nation of Millions are banned, to slagging Pitchfork for only looking for the “coolest” music.

I haven't looked at this list and don't plan to, but I would like to say one thing about this observation:

no AOR/MOR like REO, Air Supply, Rick Springfield, Styx, Bonnie Tyler, Bryan Adams, John Cougar Mellencampm, Christopher Cross, Foreigner

This is kind of equivalent to the 70s though, isn't it? On similarly-minded best of the 70s lists, we don't see much love for these kinds of standard pop / rock bands. Granted, that stuff wasn't as prevalent in the 70s, but when was the last time 'Afternoon Delight' received any sort of retroactive love? It's been a while; and with good reason.

no hair metal Warrant, Ratt, Def Leppard, Cinderella, Quiet Riot, Whitesnake etcetc even Van Halen (unless I missed 1984)

This is probably for the best that these kinds of bands are left out. Overwhelmingly, these bands were not very unique, nor all that interesting. If the list was supposed to be "most popular" then their absence would be a valid discrepancy.

no new wave one/two hits like Cutting Crew, Fixx, Kim Wilde, Simple Minds, Wang Chung, Men at Work

Definitely agree that Simple Minds and Men at Work should have had at least a little representation. But again, with a lot of these types of bands, they just weren't that remarkable besides the big single.

no Eliminator by ZZ Top

And thank fuck for that.

no Police Synchronicity

That's pretty inexcusable. My pick would have been Zenyatta Mondatta though.

no Dire Straits Brothers in Arms

Again, most popular ≠ best. While I do agree that Dire Straits deserve a mention for earlier albums, Brothers in Arms has not aged well. My pick would have been Love Over Gold.

none of the huge soundtracks that were so dominant like Top Gun, Footloose, Dirty Dancing, Pretty in Pink, Flashdance

Most popular ≠ best.

no boomer comeback stuff like Henley, Raitt, Heart, Boston, Aerosmith, Genesis/Collins

Of the ones you mentioned, I'm glad that none were represented. Did Tom Petty have much of a showing in this list? If not, he should have. I know he's not a 60s guy, but I definitely include him in that mode of bands. I mean, he was in the Traveling Wilburies.

no pop/R&B (except Madonna, Whitney) stuff like Paula Abdul, Bobby Brown, Bananarama

What about the early New Jack Swing stuff, like Guy? That stuff definitely needed to be repped for.

Also, let's not forget that the 70s list they did a few years back had absolutely zero prog rock on it. So, yeah. That's what we're dealing with when discussing pfork lists.

In general, yeah: I'm over these kinds of lists. I know that most of the bands / albums I hold really dear to me will never make one of these lists, so my interest is very little. Anymore, it's just not that much fun when you basically know what the top picks are going to be. Further, it's really taking the fun out of it when a site like pfork starts to renege on their old lists and revise. That just takes a lot of the earnestness and genuineness out of it. Definitely feels at this point like they're just trying to appease an audience. "Hey, don't like this list? It's okay, wait a few years and we'll do another one."

"Kinda funny" isn't really slagging off, tbf. xp

Personally I’m stoked on listening to stuff on the list I hadn’t heard before, and I’m stoked on most of this thread’s discussion on what’s missing. There is something fruitful on all that. But the horse jockeying stuff is irrelevant. The ultimate goal of the list and the attendant discussion is to expand the canon. No need to besmirch the site or it’s writers.

Most popular ≠ best.

ums was not saying this