SITKOL had massive singles and was his biggest seller, i really maintain a crucial part of NJs is that their initial success is primarily based on residual excitement from the album immediately preceding it, and the wait and buildup carrying over into the album's release and then being deflated. Which is why the perfect New Jersey is actually still probably Adrenalize, i remember the excitement at "Let's Get Rocked" fading very quickly into an empty feeling that it was all over for the Lep.
― omar little, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 17:11 (six years ago) link
a crucial part of NJs is that their initial success is primarily based on residual excitement from the album immediately preceding it
yeah i agree w/this
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 17:36 (six years ago) link
I feel like Songs in the Key of Life was, before I even heard Stevie Wonder (outside of 80s radio songs), the one that I sort of read or heard about as a classic album
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 17:37 (six years ago) link
me too
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 17:52 (six years ago) link
yep
― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 17:54 (six years ago) link
it's funny, every time i bring up SitKoL in this thread I'm explicitly stating it fails to be a NJ but it comes out wrong because like eighteen posts go by with people saying no way it's a NJ. to be clear, I like the album a lot and do not think it is a NJ!
― got the scuba tube blowin' like a snork (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 17:58 (six years ago) link
New Jerseys i think are never albums that have a lasting legacy despite their massive sales. i think that is the purest distilled essence of a NJ album (though by no means its only definition, tbh.)
related: it was pretty funny when i went into Target a couple years ago and their new "vintage" rock shirts section included an Adrenalize tour shirt. i think the creative team back at HQ was missing a key member or two.
― omar little, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 17:59 (six years ago) link
but different people have different ideas, like Doctor Casino constantly going on about SITKOL being a New Jersey
― omar little, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 18:00 (six years ago) link
>_<
― got the scuba tube blowin' like a snork (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 19:20 (six years ago) link
i am the new jersey to da croupier's slippery
― got the scuba tube blowin' like a snork (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 19:21 (six years ago) link
whiney is dom's NJ imo
― strong deutan (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 19:23 (six years ago) link
culture ii does not feel like a nj to me
― dyl, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 04:16 (six years ago) link
really ?To me it's like an obvious NJ case !
To be a New Jersey:- follow-up to a huge, (possibly) defining record : check- has less and/or smaller hits than prev album - or - hits based more on momentum than appeal : check- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking): check
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 07:53 (six years ago) link
But of course, as we've seen many times in this thread, this is not rocket science !
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 07:54 (six years ago) link
Lovesexy is Prince's surely. The Graffiti Bridge film didn't even get a Uk cinema release that's how bad things had got by then.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 07:59 (six years ago) link
Yeah but then Batman, D&P and Love Symbol were big.Love Symbol has his last mainstream hits.
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 08:10 (six years ago) link
So regarding the thread title, not EVERY huge artist has a NJ !
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 08:16 (six years ago) link
Lovesexy definitely his NJ D&P and Symbol had some hits and sold but none of them really felt like zeitgeisty events (same way Bon Jovi had hits or at least one after NJ)
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 09:31 (six years ago) link
Yeah but regarding the NJ conditions, after Lovesexy there's Batman which was HUGE and then D&P which was his 2nd biggest album salesI don't hink a NJ can be followed by some of the most successful albums of an artist...
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 09:41 (six years ago) link
also, Lovesexy followed Sign which wasn't more successful than the previous albums, so again, not a NJ condition.
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 09:42 (six years ago) link
@dyl
How do you figure CII isn't a New Jersey?
― mr.raffles, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 12:54 (six years ago) link
Batman and other albums may have been hits, but there was definitely the feeling that Prince's imperial period was over after Lovesexy
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 13:45 (six years ago) link
(same way Bon Jovi had hits or at least one after NJ)
Eight top 40 hits on Billboard post-New JerseyTen top 10 albums, not counting compilations, including four at #1
― The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 14:10 (six years ago) link
I totally agree but then it's only one of the conditions for a NJ. That's why I don't think it qualifies.
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 14:17 (six years ago) link
lotta king jersey only going on in this thread
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 14:19 (six years ago) link
Prince probably doesn't have a New Jersey.
I feel like if he did it would have to be Around the World in a Day
the Batman soundtrack was huge, but honestly I think that was part of the whole crazy pop culture phenomenon around that movie
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 14:29 (six years ago) link
yeah but tbf prince being selected to be part of that circus suggests he was still a huge event level artist. he doesn't have one imo.re: CII, trying to evaluate an album just released this year is a fool's game. this thread was prompted by consideration of Born This Way during the leadup to ARTPOP but BTW's NJ-ness wasn't really verifiable until at least the release of Joanne and maybe later.
― got the scuba tube blowin' like a snork (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 14:33 (six years ago) link
Wu Tang 'The W' (or maybe already 'Wu Tang Forever'?)
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 14:44 (six years ago) link
Yeah, Forever imo.It was their biggest seller following the breakthrough but it all went downward quickly after that.
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 14:52 (six years ago) link
oooooh, Wu-Tang Forever might just be a candidate. fits at least the general outline - massive massive event that in hindsight feels more like a victory lap as they never really attained anywhere close to those heights again. the most successful later outings had at most one single that really made an impact (e.g. "got your money"). i wasn't listening to rap radio or BET super regularly in the late 90s/early 00s but i have the vague sense that the genre was going through shifts comparable to rock radio in the late 90s/early 00s, that may have left acts like the wu a little out of step? one of those "the genre/audience changed out from under them" scenarios, common to many NJ's. also the numbers are there - iirc, up to that point, killa beez had sold fifty gold, sixty platinum.
― got the scuba tube blowin' like a snork (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 14:59 (six years ago) link
I posited shortly after he died that Batman itself was Prince's NJ, because it did "ultimately feel hollow" and the hits from it felt compromised even at the time. Graffiti Bridge confirmed those pessimistic expectations, and his subsequent smattering of '90s hits felt like a different, off-peak phase of his career.
If it's not Batman though, I'm fine with the idea of Prince not having a NJ.
― Josefa, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:00 (six years ago) link
Yeah actually it kinda works with Batman. Except Batman didn't surf on the momentum of the previous album's success...
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:02 (six years ago) link
But I guess the final consensus is that Prince doesn't have one.
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:03 (six years ago) link
Forever always seemed odd, as it was undeniably huge at the time but felt almost anti-commercial
looking at Prince certifications. It's so up and down--surprised that Lovesexy only went Gold and the two preceding albums were 1X Platinum
Batman went 2X Platinum, then Graffitti Bridge Gold, then D&P 2X Platinum
― President Keyes, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:06 (six years ago) link
Wu-Tang Forever is actually fucking amazing, so many great songs on that
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:09 (six years ago) link
About the NPG/D&P and Symbol years, I remember that he was still huge on tv/radio.then he disappeared almost overnight !
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:10 (six years ago) link
Yeah, the problem with Forever is that it's actually a GREAT album (although too long).
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:11 (six years ago) link
there's def some kind of limit condition where when an artist is too huge for too long, it's less and less likely that they'll have an NJ and that if they do it's more contested. because they've just accumulated too many fans, maybe even too many *demographics* of fans, that they can't really shed them fast enough for the post-NJ slide to happen. by 1989 prince had been adding new fans for most of a decade across idk eight or nine albums of which at least five or six were "huge events." that just isn't going to dissipate all at once even if you're actively TRYING to kill it, let alone reaching for new cross-promotional heights with the biggest blockbuster of the summer. see the earlier comments about the stones/jay-z "every album will be an event til they die" phenomenon. this may also be why we keep coming back to relitigate bad vs. dangerous.
― got the scuba tube blowin' like a snork (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:11 (six years ago) link
But whenever you hear some Wu Tang nowadays (radio, movies...), it's 100% Enter. Forever (and the following albums) didn't leave a mark in the culture (except for the fans, obviously).
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:14 (six years ago) link
One could argue that Batman was really a follow up to Sign O the Times and its accompanying concert film, since right after that came the confusion over the Black Album being advertised as his next album, then suddenly withdrawn, then Lovesexy appears as a single unsequenced track making it seem like an oddity (though I still think the quality of Lovesexy places it in his imperial phase).
― Josefa, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:15 (six years ago) link
agreed abt forever being anti-commercial - not a lot of "singles" there in terms of reasonable length, recurring hooks, etc. whereas most of the predecessor wu records had at least two or three obvious singles i think. and yet it sold crazily because they were obviously the hugest thing going and getting them back together on a double album was inevitably super anticipated. they'd planned it that way. "triumph" indeed. then when The W had more obvious single material, it sort of worked but also felt much more like an ordinary album and not an event, their status had deflated in the intervening years.
― got the scuba tube blowin' like a snork (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:17 (six years ago) link
One could argue that Batman was really a follow up to Sign O the Times and its accompanying concert film,
Except the film was poorly distributed and promoted, and barely played a week in the few towns where you could see it. Even if you were a huge Prince fan at the time, you would've missed the film...or missed hearing about the film at all.
xp
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:20 (six years ago) link
It was a big hit at my college but I guess I was living in kind of a bubble at the time
― Josefa, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:26 (six years ago) link
The chief cultural legacy of Wu-Tang Forever is the Triumph music video. Almost everything else seems to have fallen by the wayside
― guardians of the gums: i am tooth (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 15:30 (six years ago) link
Lovesexy appears as a single unsequenced track making it seem like an oddity
did it really sell more on CD than on cassette and LP combined tho?
― ▫◌▫ (sic), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 16:20 (six years ago) link
well those formats were unsequenced too iirc, just divided into two sides
― Josefa, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 16:36 (six years ago) link
yeah besides promo copies the Lovesexy vinyl wasn't banded
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 16:41 (six years ago) link
Lovesexy was reissued in Europe in 2006 with the CD broken into individual tracks.
― grawlix (unperson), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 16:50 (six years ago) link
Since they've both been mentioned in the past 24 hours, here's something that happened in Minneapolis last night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=92&v=FgQ57Gv7W7k
― Pesto Mindset (Eazy), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 19:33 (six years ago) link
― guardians of the gums: i am tooth (voodoo chili), Wednesday, September 5, 2018 10:30 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I feel like Deck's "bomb atomically" verse is pretty iconic and referenced often
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 5 September 2018 19:39 (six years ago) link