Captain Beefheart

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Hah! I bought the new Wire today and there's a letter from a Keith Coyne of London slagging off D. Bailey!

Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 17:13 (twenty-three years ago)

haha for fuck's sake. I'll get this tomorrow. was he bitching abt the milo fine gig?

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 22 April 2003 17:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Julio -- I think what you say about the blues is nearly spot on -- that is, blues is at the centre of everything on that record, but to call it a blues record is as misleading as it is absolutely dead accurate, and is as misleading and absolutely dead accurate as calling Ornette Coleman's "Free Jazz" a blues record.

Colin not logged in, Tuesday, 22 April 2003 17:30 (twenty-three years ago)

important to distinguish 'shiny beast (bat chain puller)' from 'bat chain puller'. the latter was his big comeback record, which he'd promised to two record labels, and it's yet to see official release due to that fact. zappa's estate is sitting on the tapes, refusing to release them. virgin issued a promo on cassette tape back in the day -- it's been widely bootlegged (most recently as 'dust sucker' with horrible packaging, weird liner notes etc. this is the version I have but I'd buy a better one in a second, the music is so great.)

'shiny beast' are the half-hearted attempts to re-record everything and I'll agree it's a bit tame, but the original 'bat chain puller' has moments that rival anything. 'brickbats' alone.

milton, Tuesday, 22 April 2003 18:40 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm the dude with no interest in da bluuues and I am definitely not implying that TMR is a straight forward blues record (the saxophone freak outs are enough to put that record in a separate niche), but as Colin said a lot of Beefheart's phrasings and yowls are definitely in the blues canon, same with the guitar tunings and even the low-fi recording which gives it that old delta vibe. Hell, don't tell me Ella Guru is not a play on Leadbelly's Ella Speed..

'Doc at the Radar Station', with its leaner more polished sound, still has a very angular feel but seems more informed by Zappa's take on XX century atonal music than Coleman style free-jazz (just listen to those instrumentals on Doc)

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 07:27 (twenty-three years ago)

seems more informed by Zappa's take on XX century atonal music

Yeah, like Zappa informed Beefheart's music one iota.

Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 12:28 (twenty-three years ago)

''Julio -- I think what you say about the blues is nearly spot on -- that is, blues is at the centre of everything on that record, but to call it a blues record is as misleading as it is absolutely dead accurate, and is as misleading and absolutely dead accurate as calling Ornette Coleman's "Free Jazz" a blues record.''

hey colin not logged in: fair enuff so why did you say that ''It's all blues'' (I mean from what you're saying it is blues + x something).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 14:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Not really blues + x = something more, more like the combination of blues elements in that manner leads to something other than blues.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:03 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah i agree. still doesn't explain why you said that ''its all blues'' (sorry to be picky) in your v first post to this thread.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:08 (twenty-three years ago)

'cause it is all blues -- that is, all the elements are blues elements -- but blues elements put together in that manner leads to Trout Mask Replica, of which it is incomplete to say that it's a blues record.

Colin Meeder (Mert), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:42 (twenty-three years ago)

The great Beefheart debate.

I rank them:
1-Decals
2-Doc
3-TMR
4-Clear Spot
5-Safe as Milk
6-Ice Cream
7-Spotlight Kid
8-Shiny Beast
9-Strictly Personal
10-Mirror Man
11-Bluejeans & Moonbeams
12-Unconditionally

I've listened to him a lot and I couldn't tell you what it is or what it isn't. There is something incomplete about a lot of it, which isn't a bad thing; the production is almost always bad, except on the last 3 and "Clear Spot." "Decals" really suffers from the shitty bass and drum sound, since the bass and drum playing on that one is amazing. I regard "Decals" as the best because it's the most concise and focused. "Doc" sounds flat (esp. on the Caroline CD I have) but "Dirty Blue Gene" pretty sums up what I like about Beefheart, and overall I think the words on that one are his best by far. Only thing that makes it less than perfect is his voice--he's still funny but the old power and range just ain't there any more.
Zappa once said that CB had a bad sense of rhythm. FZ generally makes me urp but he's right in this case. The weird thing about Beef is the way the music works against itself; there's something horribly thwarted in a lot of it and you sense he's just impatient. The thing that saves it, usually, is the sense as well that he's aware of it but can do nothing about it except to mock his own impulses, constantly, and only occasionally does something really unifed and fairly un-neurotic emerge, like "Click Clack" or the "Clear Spot" album or the great "Best Batch Yet." But Beef's bad rhythm is not really bad in the sense that ordinary folks have bad rhythm--it's more like Howlin' Wolf's slightly off sense of what's happening, metrically, and I've always thought that Beef internalized some of this, and actually did a very strange and cool thing by internalizing all the wrong and oblique aspects of "blues" and came out with what he came out with.

Jess Hill (jesshill), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:41 (twenty-three years ago)

Am I crazy for loving "Strictly Personal"?

J (Jay), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:54 (twenty-three years ago)

Am I crazy for loving "Strictly Personal"?

-- J

No--I like it a lot too and it's cool as a response to various things happening at the same time (Beatles, blues revival shit, etc.). In many ways it's his most rockin' album before "Clear Spot."

Jess Hill (jesshill), Thursday, 24 April 2003 13:26 (twenty-three years ago)

''"Decals" really suffers from the shitty bass and drum sound''

sounds OK to me.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 24 April 2003 13:29 (twenty-three years ago)

I was duly put down by this remark:
"'seems more informed by Zappa's take on XX century atonal music'
Yeah, like Zappa informed Beefheart's music one iota."

-- Dadaismus (kcoyne3...), April 23rd, 2003. (later)

anyone care to discuss this?

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Thursday, 24 April 2003 13:40 (twenty-three years ago)

''"Decals" really suffers from the shitty bass and drum sound''

sounds OK to me.

-- Julio Desouza

Sounds OK but not good. Barely acceptable. Sorta works to reinforce the weird vaudeville vibe of the record, I guess. The pitter-pat of little tap-dancing feet or something.

Jess Hill (jesshill), Thursday, 24 April 2003 13:47 (twenty-three years ago)

you can tell there wasn't a very heavy effort on the drums here, but "doctor dark" and "bellerin plain" have some great drumming aspecialy "doctor dark" wich has amazing drumming, John French was some unique drummer.

rexJr., Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:24 (twenty-three years ago)

Well having two drummers on "Decals" just doesn't work. You don't really need two drummers with John French (or Art Tripp for that matter) on board.

Dadaismus, Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:27 (twenty-three years ago)

having two drummers does work (used to really good effect on certain tracks, I'll check which when i get home) and the bass and drums sound OK as in 'def acceptable' to me.

Beefheart uses undistorted guitar sound. I can def hear the bass on this. It may not be as 'full on' but it doesn't need to be here.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:36 (twenty-three years ago)

three years pass...
http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/images/captainbeefflaps.jpg

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Wednesday, 23 August 2006 02:11 (nineteen years ago)

Neon Meate Dream Of A Paris Hilton

Scourage (Haberdager), Wednesday, 23 August 2006 02:14 (nineteen years ago)

Doctor Demento? What the fuck was I thinking?

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 23 August 2006 02:18 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...
http://goldenfiddle.com/sites/goldenfiddle.com/files/images/neutralmilkhilton.jpg

Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 01:03 (nineteen years ago)

So wait, is Dadaismus THE K Coyne?

sleeve version 2.0 (sleeve testing), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 02:25 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, I faked my own death

Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Tuesday, 26 September 2006 07:32 (nineteen years ago)

six months pass...
the world needs a Beefheart best record poll (?!)

Zeno, Sunday, 22 April 2007 04:37 (nineteen years ago)

or maybe it's too obvious that "doc at the radar" will win so whats the point.

Zeno, Sunday, 22 April 2007 04:37 (nineteen years ago)

IT IS NOT

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 22 April 2007 04:38 (nineteen years ago)

let the poll decide 'bout that

Zeno, Sunday, 22 April 2007 04:39 (nineteen years ago)

I just listened to Doc all the way through driving today. I've always loved Ashtray Heart but it never dawned on me the degree to which this is a great album.

filthy dylan, Sunday, 22 April 2007 04:47 (nineteen years ago)

'Doc at the Radar" is clearly his best. "Sue Egypt" might be my favorite song of his.

baaderonixx, Sunday, 22 April 2007 09:13 (nineteen years ago)

Nope.

Jack Burton, Sunday, 22 April 2007 11:40 (nineteen years ago)

Trout Mask Replica not best? Hmmm, what's going on here?

sonderangerbot, Sunday, 22 April 2007 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

What the...?

Jack Burton, Sunday, 22 April 2007 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

three months pass...

http://www.scarygoround.com/strips/20070730.png

Telephone thing, Monday, 30 July 2007 04:24 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.scarygoround.com/strips/20070731.png

Telephone thing, Tuesday, 31 July 2007 04:09 (eighteen years ago)

I've listened to the The Spotlight Kid/Clear Spot two-on one disc more than anything else by Beefheart. It is all good, but this one is the one I listen to the most. The song by Beefheart that seems to pop up in my head the most is "Gimme Dat Harp Boy".

earlnash, Tuesday, 31 July 2007 04:23 (eighteen years ago)

I will stop posting these when they stop being so awesome.

http://www.scarygoround.com/strips/20070801.png

Telephone thing, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 05:38 (eighteen years ago)

hang on. "Ryan Adams" is "writing" this?

Mark G, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 06:47 (eighteen years ago)

Nah, not Ryan Adams, just a character who happens to be named Ryan. The author of the comic is John Allison, the rest of it is on http://www.scarygoround.com/.

Telephone thing, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 18:19 (eighteen years ago)

Also responsible for this classic Achewood guest spot.

Telephone thing, Wednesday, 1 August 2007 18:23 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.scarygoround.com/strips/20070802.png

Telephone thing, Thursday, 2 August 2007 04:01 (eighteen years ago)

Are you John Allison?

Drooone, Thursday, 2 August 2007 04:03 (eighteen years ago)

Nah, just someone who finds these amusing and has nothing better to do with himself at 11 PM on a weeknight.

Telephone thing, Thursday, 2 August 2007 04:09 (eighteen years ago)

Keep 'em coming, yeah!

Mark G, Thursday, 2 August 2007 06:58 (eighteen years ago)

I've listened to the The Spotlight Kid/Clear Spot two-on one disc more than anything else by Beefheart

I still haven't really gotten into this one. I never seem to be in the mood for it. If I want to hear an album like this, I'd be more likely to put on Little Feat.

o. nate, Thursday, 2 August 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

Nice comparison, that, considering they shared a label and producer and Roy Estrada.

Myonga Vön Bontee, Thursday, 2 August 2007 16:35 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.scarygoround.com/strips/20070803.png

fin

Telephone thing, Friday, 3 August 2007 05:01 (eighteen years ago)

heart.gif

Mark G, Friday, 3 August 2007 08:28 (eighteen years ago)

As a five-year ILX lurker I am very proud to have my comics linked on I Love Music!!

John Allison, Friday, 3 August 2007 22:30 (eighteen years ago)


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