XXXTentacion - ?

for me it's mostly that i don't give a shit about moral judgment w/o any action to rectify the multitude of problems tied up in this "narrative." like, it seems to me that people are pushing so and so stance just so they can feel better about not putting any work in; participation is rooted in a discursive loop, not in a desire to work towards anything apart from making moral points about what abusers do and don't deserve on a moral level. which, people can think whatever, but structural change and restorative justice really has nothing to do w that and this discourse seems more diversionary towards that end goal than helpful

also re that tmz link, seeing people on twitter shit on abuse victims for saying they didn't get closure when their abuser died is telling

because he symbolized a lot of toxic aspects of modern day society and twitter and instagram invite glib reactions? i’m not saying it’s right, but the people praising him without qualification are just as quease inducing. damon young otm

― maura, 19. juni 2018 20:30 (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you don't see the problem with making a kid into a symbol of all that's wrong in society, and then celebrating his death?

...

Longneck, you're a one, aren't you.

actually i. worded that weirdly. didn't mean to imply that people can't feel one way or another, but i don't think "performative" is a meaningless word at all

you don't see the problem with making a kid into a symbol of all that's wrong in society, and then celebrating his death?

like that miami new times piece... i don’t understand how you can read that and not think that something deeply fucked up is in the bones of everything

I definitely see the problem with that, and I have also written publicly about how sickened I've felt listening to his music and witnessing its reception. I still think flat out cruelty and jokes and making a dead kid into some sort of scapegoat for society's ills is almost just as sickening though. It doesn't solve anything.

not to mention a hype cycle that’s so choked police reports are the only things that cut through the clutter?

This is such an important point... I think it also speaks to the restricted agency of poverty where publicity comes at an insanely high cost ... that the only poor kids we hear about making their way out do so when some crime has been committed

For me it’s quite simple: I thought “well, fuck this asshole” when he was alive and now that he’s dead I still think “well, fuck this asshole”. That doesn’t mean I’m celebrating his death, does it?

Sorry about my terrible opening post after hearing about it - the live by the sword, die by the sword line - it should have been: live by the bbq fork you tried to shove up your ex-gf’s vagina, die getting shot in your BMW.

Oops, sorry. RIP king. Thoughts and prayers.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/weve-only-begun-understanding-xxxtentacions-musical-legacy-w521739

Oh for fucks sake that is legit terrible.

Wow - this sequence of sentences in particular - it's like watching the rationalization/minimization happen in real time:

A deposition excerpted by Pitchfork and reporting from the Miami New Times pointed to a history of physical and mental violence that's monstrous by any standard – most notably the allegations of beating her so severely that he damaged her optic nerve. During his life, XXX was callous about the accusations, even mocking. News media and social media made attempts to silence, de-platform and otherwise cancel him, but his impact on music will be felt for years to come nonetheless.

By sentence 3, he has become the victim of "attempts to silence" (etc.) which was presented as "reporting" just a few beats earlier.

Earlier, I typed up and then deleted a post about how the most "performative" thing going around XXXTentacion was not grief or woke rage, but thirtysomething critics pretending that half-assed music by and for stoned, ignorant teenagers was somehow important and worthwhile. Whiney's piece is Exhibit A.

Nowhere in that piece do I say that XXX is a victim or that his music is good. Feel free to keep projecting things on it though, you self-righteous clods

I'm not feeling self-righteous at all; just gobsmacked

What a happy discussion this will be!

I spent the last thirty minutes trying to articulate my complicated thought pattern with some level of succinctness

Only to be derailed by Whiney's piece

But anyway:

I think the prerogative toward grieving, or celebrating, the murder (or death) of an abusive individual within the black community should be black people's prerogative and theirs alone

I’m just not into the Richie Valens comparison at all.

lotta bad reading going on itt

You don't say his music is good, you just talk (and talk, and talk) about his chart success without any context for how "chart success" is measured now versus how it was measured in the late Seventies or early Eighties (when your examples - the Germs, Tall Dwarfs, etc. - were putting out records). Charting with "album equivalent units" is a qualitatively different thing from getting people to walk into a store and buy a record with your name on it. XXXTentacion charted because stoned, ignorant teenagers were briefly fascinated by him. They'll be briefly fascinated with someone else next week.

d-40 otm throughout this thread

I think the prerogative toward grieving, or celebrating, the murder (or death) of an abusive individual within the black community should be black people's prerogative and theirs alone

― nevertheless, he stopped (flamboyant goon tie included), Tuesday, June 19, 2018 6:17 PM (twenty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

strongly disagree with this. the guy was a public figure and his misdeeds were reflective not of the black community but of our culture of indifference to the mistreatment of women as a whole

his misdeeds were reflective not of our culture of indifference to the mistreatment of women as a whole but reflective of teenagers' culture of indifference to pretty much everything

sure

I mostly agree with deej btw but I personally would not die on this particular hill on this particular day, to put it gently

I think the prerogative toward grieving, or celebrating, the murder (or death) of an abusive individual within the black community should be black people's prerogative and theirs alone

― nevertheless, he stopped (flamboyant goon tie included), Tuesday, June 19, 2018 6:17 PM (twenty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

strongly disagree with this. the guy was a public figure and his misdeeds were reflective not of the black community but of our culture of indifference to the mistreatment of women as a whole

― k3vin k., Tuesday, June 19, 2018 6:50 PM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I mean, women from all backgrounds, for example, might have thoughts about the situation that deserve to be heard

k3vin

Very specifically, I said that the decision whether to grieve or celebrate the murder (or death) of an abusive individual within the black community should be black people's prerogative and theirs alone

Similarly, I don't think it'd be a good look for non-black men or women to say "yay, that fucker is dead" when OJ dies

I limited the scope of this opinion to "abusive individual within the black community" because I'm really talking about individuals who have committed violence against other individuals. (Not Charles Taylor, i.e.)

I didn't say that non-black people couldn't have opinions about his misdeeds or the culture of indifference that he represented, or put forth constructive ways of correcting that culture

the OJ situation obviously is a special case. granting that in this godforsaken country we inhabit any news story involving a person of color is going to draw out questionable responses from white people, was the discourse around xxx's career sufficiently racially polarized to make that comparison appropriate? I honestly can't say I followed his career very closely

I view people who engage in apologism for this guy the same way I do all the Varg/Burzum stans (and I know there are many of those in this ilx community). Don't any of you twist yourselves in a knot trying to advocate to irredeemable people no matter what kind of point you're trying to score.

advocate *for

“XXXTentacion charted because stoned, ignorant teenagers were briefly fascinated by him.” — someone who dedicated his life writing about bands with names like Bathtub Shitter and Anal Cunt

So you're saying I'm...wrong? Your response feels kinda handwavy.

my response is finger-wavy, bitch

So a terrible person made some popular art and then died, is what happened?

the good thing is the people who demonize him dont have to look at themselves or the artists they've propped up over the years at all

@ k3vin, I think that in the wake of so many high-profile celebrities being outed as abusers, and the collective trauma that survivors have been through over the past eternity of hearing account after account after account, that XXX being gunned-down-in-the-street satisfied a revenge fantasy that many survivors have been privately having against their own abusers. (Not me personally, all I want from my abuser is an apology.) Although it's understandable that non-black people might take to the internet to celebrate his death, and I don't judge people who've done it, I do not think that it is a good idea to use XXX as a proxy for that fantasy. I think it is an accessorization of a black body to mitigate one's own trauma. Despite claims that a celebration of XXX's death might be in solidarity with survivors of his violence, I think the survivor's body and wishes are also being ignored and accessorized with such a celebration. I'm not passing judgement in saying these things, just expressing my own conflicted feelings (and tentative conclusion): I do not think it is my place as a non-black person to make decisions to either grieve or celebrate individuals such as these on the event of their murder, or form (let alone express) opinions when black people choose to either grieve or celebrate on the event of his murder.

All I really feel is sadness overall!

or we can, you know, not say or think anything at all

go for it

I don't think anyone should be celebrating his death, making snarky comments, etc. On the other hand, I also recoil at how some of the the (non-black) artists in this thread are choosing to publicly grieve/celebrate his life: https://twitter.com/i/events/1008852757883674625

I think he is the first celebrity accused of abuse to die in the MeToo era (not to mention die horribly); so there's not really a template for how to respond and weigh his accomplishments against the accusations. I am trying to keep that in mind. He was also so young, and the alleged abuse so fresh/recent -- those are factors on both sides of the coin.

thirtysomething critics pretending that half-assed music by and for stoned, ignorant teenagers was somehow important and worthwhile

new board description

To be real w unperson, outside of two songs, I don’t really like XXXs music, but it seems absurd to me to treat something this popular and influential with “eh, kids are dumb, this will be over soon” especially after you know — of all people on here — know what the initial reaction to Black Sabbath, Led Zep and Kiss was.

And no, there’s isn’t some 1:1 ratio between popularity and importance, but I think I outlined how XXX did have an impact in his short time here

alfred otm

judging feels so good eh?

i mean, dancing on the grave of a dead person, unbookmarked