Kanye West's new 2018 album

I'm judgmental and unforgiving. That's my fucking superpower.

I know that stoves burn you. They don't cut you. That my superpower.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReedRichardsIsUseless

Just what we need
To halt a severe Diplo

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReedRichardsIsUseless

― El Tomboto

reed richards' superpower is to do a fucking great guest spot on one mf doom song and then disappear forever

the idea that Tekashi 69 or Bobby Blotzer from Ratt or Justin Timberlake or whoever plays bass for Three Doors Down is likely smarter than my incredibly perceptive psychologist who holds a PhD is really one for the record books

He's so good he's convinced you that all other psychologists are on that level by association.

sh@kedown otm, that's o_O

I was thinking of Robin Williams, Chester Bennington, Scott Hutchinson, but ymmv

Another good rap record about mental health issues: Pharaoh Monch "PTSD"

Mind's Playing Tricks on Me

I figured if I brought up Scarface I would get "old man rap head yells at cloudrap" feedback but yeah if you wanna talk mental illness in classic rap records, 'Face is ground zero.

z-ro as well

good call

I was thinking of Robin Williams, Chester Bennington, Scott Hutchinson, but ymmv

― nevertheless, he stopped (flamboyant goon tie included), Tuesday, June 5, 2018 8:21 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

perhaps just like every other group some successful musicians are very intelligent and others are not and success in music is tied to many factors outside of how smart a person is

also a therapist job isn't necessarily to be "smarter" than you it's to help you process your feelings and thoughts and also see through your bullshit ways of not dealing with things, one of which may be fancying yourself smarter than your therapist

otm

Starlito belongs to the conversation.

This was a single point in a longer post. I'm not suggesting "successful people are smarter than normal plebes with mental illness"-- if that was implied, then whoops, my bad. I'm not suggesting that therapists in general are dumber than their patients. Or that they need to be smarter.

I'm saying that I've had experience, both as a person whose had (I think) seven different therapists of various styles helping me with my own bullshit, and as a person whose had many friends cycle through different therapists and relate to me their experiences. And I've had experience doing emotional labour for so many fucked up people. And generally, my observation is that people who are intelligent, highly intelligent, are better at constructing more elaborate defence mechanisms to protect themselves against treatment. And that also, highly intelligent people require highly intelligent therapists to be able to assail those defence mechanisms and break the mental loops that are causing them to keep cycling through whatever patterns they've fallen into.

I have a friend who endured a crushing rejection by a man he was in love with and had had a six month relationship with. What followed was two years of obsession, construction of elaborate narratives, and the spreading around of accusations of "narcissism" and such things around our mutual friend group. This man is the smartest person I've ever met. Whenever I tried to get through to him, to help me deal with the root of his problem-- dealing with rejection and accepting it-- rather than sublimating his pain into other projections, it felt like I was playing a game of chess against a grand master, and losing badly. He had built up so many defences and rhetorical narratives that it was impossible for me to make him understand.

In the cases of people who I mentioned, and Kanye himself, all of whom I assume are/were blindingly intelligent, and in a position (famous comedian/musician) that it's hard for anybody-- friend or therapist-- to truly understand or empathize with, I am simply stating that I would imagine (probably correctly) that finding a therapist who was good enough (and smart enough) to break through whatever neural loops were terrorizing the individual would be very difficult.

Whenever I tried to get through to him, to help me deal with the root of his problem-- dealing with rejection and accepting it-- rather than sublimating his pain into other projections, it felt like I was playing a game of chess against a grand master, and losing badly.

oooof I've dealt with this a few times and it's a real thing, working for hours at a time to sort out the insight they'll accept, knowing you may not be able to reuse it again later, like you're training a virus to defeat medication.

fgti is otm imo. It's what Lacan called 'les non-dupes errent'. Those who can't be fooled are in error. From what I gather it's a rather well-known phenomenon in psychology, especially when it comes to something like addiction - smart guys see through the platitudes of the 12 steps program and refuse to hand over their destiny to 'a higher power'. There's a brilliant portrait of this type of guy in Infinite Jest, I think it's Geoffrey Day.

I also would not be surprised if the kardashian machine discouraged him from seeking treatment (no treatment = no storylines) or even had it in some contract

er treatment = no storylines, you know what I mean

Haha wow I would definitely be surprised! But it's possible.

Also, pertaining to my last post, rethinking the mindsets of the famous content-creators that I know, I think it's less of an "these people are probably smart and thus hard-to-treat" issue, and more of a "requirement of their position to have an unshakeable belief in one's own importance and goodness" that would create difficulty in penetrating their psychological world, or pointing out erroneous or delusional modes of thought

What you are describing seems to be basic cognitive dissonance and I would expect any good therapist/psychiatrist to be professionaly trained to deal with that, with ease and habit. Now maybe that is not the prefered way for INTx50 succesful musician to work with their issues, different shrinks for different kinks I suppose. However, the further you describe the situation of your peers, the more it reminds that some people just do not have the humility to get the necessary help, which relates to Kanye and the new record pretty well, but has nothing to do with conventional definitions of success (I see that stuff in all workplaces, all social levels).

Controp but I think if you’re looking for mental illness records that are authentic I wouldn’t look towards most rap
Barnett nailed it on her new one

peak

Key - most. Kendrick and haze rule obvs

smart guys see through the platitudes of the 12 steps program and refuse to hand over their destiny to 'a higher power'

yeah this is wrong. the higher power in cases of AA or whatever is not necessarily God but whatever is holding power over you, whether addiction to a substance, or a toxic relationship, or destructive tendencies, etc. if these things are holding you down yet you continue thinking you've got it under control you are not outsmarting the therapy, you are merely lying to yourself. i will agree getting treatment is mostly about accepting you have a problem in the first place. but to think that some people are too smart for treatment is absurd.

fwiw the modern desire to say "Just work through your problems" as if finding the right therapist who will of course be able to cure you provided they have the proper training is fucking hilarious. also the idea of connoting success with intelligence also fucking hilarious.

the higher power in cases of AA or whatever is not necessarily God but whatever is holding power over you, whether addiction to a substance, or a toxic relationship, or destructive tendencies, etc.

sorry this is wrong, you are conflating the "higher power" that will help you overcome addiction/dependency/whatever with the power of the addiction/dependency that you admit you are powerless under

one's higher power in 12-step does not have to be god but it would be v weird to say your higher power is you addiction or dependency. the higher power is a positive force that you rely on through the twelve steps

sorry to be a 12-step pendant but i got family in this thing

*pedant

reed richards' superpower is to do a fucking great guest spot on one mf doom song and then disappear forever

― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Tuesday, June 5, 2018 12:26 PM (yesterday)

also one King Geedorah song

lol for a second I was like "they give out pendants? I want in"

"What we have instead is the most insular and impenetrable album from a man whose art has always gloriously been dedicated to the self. ye, as its cover makes clear, is his most bracingly personal album, a documentation of his increasingly public wrestling with his mental health and corroded life. (It’s also a nearly instant one at that—West claims he scrapped an entire album to record ye in the last month.) He has also never felt more distant; locked away in self-created prisons in Calabasas and Wyoming, the rapper whose relatability made him a cross-demographic superstar now has problems and solutions that are almost completely unrecognizable to the common man."

https://www.spin.com/2018/06/kanye-west-ye-review/

that review is OTM

idk if its been linked but i also like rawiya's review in fader

nice work by j0 tho, v dense read

Ah, is that ILM's "J0rdan"?

(er, sorry if I wasn't supposed to use full handle on same page as link, or something)

anyway, great writing

it's fire

Sounds like Kanye needs a high dose of psilocybin. Disassociate that ego forcefully.

jOrdan's review excellent and I'd like to read a much longer version of it.

some beautiful writing in there.

idk if its been linked but i also like rawiya's review in fader

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Tuesday, June 5, 2018 6:47 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't think we linked it and I wasn't aware of it. Here it is, and it's fire:

"Across ye’s seven tracks, Kanye digs his heels in — no apologies, no regrets or introspection, just barely coherent thoughts and barely complete songs. In fact, its single most original idea, and the only one I hope seeps into the culture is its brevity, though even that is wielded unsuccessfully. The album’s clearest ideological precursor is “Facts,” the “Jumpman” facsimile first released on SoundCloud in late 2015. Just as on that song, which eventually ended up on The Life of Pablo, Kanye is defensive to the point of hysteria. When he references one of his recent most offensive comments on “Wouldn’t Leave” — “I say slavery a choice / They say, ‘how, Ye? ’/ Just imagine if they caught me on a wild day” — he conveniently treats his words as just another Kanye controversy, not an actual hurtful, damaging statement."

http://www.thefader.com/2018/06/04/kanye-west-ye-review

thanks for the kind words, everyone :-)

The most generous reading of ye is that West wants us to witness his public breakdown and the slow-motion implosion of his reputation. The album would then theoretically be a unique document of what happens at the intersection of mental health and celebrity. He would, maybe, accomplish his mission of asking the public to examine their expectations of artists. But in order for us to watch the spectacle of his life going up in flames, and to think about what has caused it and why, and to extend our empathy to him as a victim, we have to descend to the depths of West’s subterranean nihilism—to live where he lives. Alas, ye is in no way fascinating enough for that journey to be justified.

Still, the music at times almost makes it worth it.

I read: my empathy for this man’s mental health situation is dependent upon how much I appreciate his music

Can’t say I don’t feel the same, but this is kind of the crux, no?

Like, it’s the experience of anybody who has suffered from depression (i.e.) that one is at their neediest-for-validation-and-understanding when they are also at their most depressed-and-unlikeable

Diamanda Galas: “the truth about mental illness is that it’s the loneliness that kills you”

yeah i feel that. tho i do think we have to remember we’re talking about an album... it still has to have a utility to the listener as a piece of music. this is not kanye’s essay about his mental health. the spoken word opening of “i thought about killing you” is gripping but then... the rest of the song happens.

also i do think there’s a version of this album where kanye more honestly grapples with himself & his celebrity (i realize i’m wading into choppy waters here)