Great albums with terrible last songs

seems like if you like zany sing song whimsy like "Lucifer Sam" or "The Gnome" then "Bike" isn't really far off. idgi maybe there are Syd fans that are "Vegetable Man was a little too far, dude should've reigned it in" but personally anytime i hear a new Syd track no matter how shambolic im like please sir i'd like some more

― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau)

Ha this are my 3 favorite songs from Piper. My favorite Syd Barrett song is See Emily Play though... whoever decided to leave it out of piper made the wrong choice.

Is Hot Rats really considered more accessible than Freak Out? Freak Out is the only Zappa album I've heard that I like. Hot Rats was just endless noodling.

depends who you ask I guess. I don't think people are really coming to Zappa for 'accessibility', if you wanted that then you'd be better off with, I dunno, Over-nite Sensation or something. I think it's accessible in that it doesn't do anything to turn the listener off.

xp to self I suppose Absolutely Free is OK and I like My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama off Weasels Ripped My Flesh, but that's about it.

Ha this are my 3 favorite songs from Piper. My favorite Syd Barrett song is See Emily Play though... whoever decided to leave it out of piper made the wrong choice.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, April 12, 2018 9:12 AM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The original US version had See Emily Play on it. It was apparently considered bad form in the UK at the time to put hit singles on your album, whereas in the US it was expected that a new album would have the current single(s) on it, with the presence of hit singles used to promote albums. I like "Emily" as well as "Arnold Layne" and "Apples and Oranges" better than anything on Piper.

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It’s funny ‘cuz I like a lot of stuff that seems “Zappa adjacent,” both in style and approach... I read about Zappa music, and it sounds like something I would like... but then when I listen to it, I’m basically “Oh HELL no....”

I gave “Freak Out” a good chance, and I thought I might dig the all-guitar album (I like good playing...)

when I started listening to Zappa I found Hot Rats to be one of the more accessible albums mainly because it has no Frank Zappa vocals or comedy monologues on it

A common reason given for liking certain Zappa albums. Personally, I find those the instrumental jazz-rock of Zappa dull as ditchwater.

those instrumental jazz-rock albums. Jesus, my typing.

Hot Rats has the massive advantage of Beefheart singing on the only track w/ lyrics.

yea that was kind of my experience with him too. the first one I got was Sheik Yerbouti (it was the only one the store had) and when "Broken Hearts are For Assholes" came on my jaw hit the floor. like, seriously, this is the guy who a bunch of hardcore prog-heads say is the greatest ever? that wasn't actually a turn-off, I thought it was kinda fascinating, even though I really wished that the dude who was often praised for his sense of humor was actually *funny* and not just crass. he's like a middle schooler who thinks "put it in your ASS!!!" is the funniest thing ever.

later I came to realize that this was basically his entire shtick. as though the pinnacle of artistic achievement was drawing a big ol' dick on the Mona Lisa. the early days were full of whining about "awww they won't let me say FUCK on a record!" and then when his style of crassness was no longer considered "shocking" (was it back then?) he became even more bitter and desperate. the last straw for me was "Jumbo Go Away" on You Are What You Is (which I'd heard was his best 80's record), even my 17-year old idiot edgelord self thought it was too needlessly cruel and hateful. it singlehandedly made me afraid of getting old.

I guess this is a bit OT

It feels to me like maybe he doesn’t actually like rock ’n’ roll, and is only using it strategically/sarcastically (but maybe that’s not accurate or fair).

nah he loves rock n roll. listen to Crusin With Ruben and the Jets.

Imagos post was a joke right

;)

Zappa is weird and freaky in an incredibly irritating way. He's obviously a cunt - fine - but his music is just the worst kind of fucking around. It has a really vile energy. Whenever Cardiacs get compared to him it makes me literally puke. I'm puking right now

Also I've thought of another example, kind of! The Mars Volta's album Frances The Mute is properly amazing right up until the half-hour closing track, of which maybe eight minutes are required

if you don't like Bike, you hate life

I don't know why, I call him Gerald

Bike is life, alright!

Also I've thought of another example, kind of! The Mars Volta's album Frances The Mute is properly amazing right up until the half-hour closing track, of which maybe eight minutes are required

― imago, Thursday, April 12, 2018 7:18 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ok sure but like... idk, the hook for "cassandra gemini" is the best hook of their discography. when they get back around to it after 15 minutes of whatever it's so awesome that i don't care how long it is

That's fair

OK listening to CG and it hasn't gotten dull yet after like 15 minutes, maybe I've misjudged it

Oh no wait here's the bit they should have cut haha

nah he loves rock n roll. listen to Crusin With Ruben and the Jets.

I'm 2/3 into this, and not hating it! He clearly does have a real affinity for '50s R'n'R and doo-wop.

I feel like I'd rather listen to "the real thing" -- or the Lou Reed songs where he goes deep into those styles and creates something new -- than this album, which feels like sort of a "genre exercise"; but I concede it's my first time thru and I'm just listening on the computer.

Cruising is such an anomaly in his catalogue - it's weirdly earnest, you don't get the sense he's just mocking it the way you do with all those hard-rock 70s records. He never did another record quite like it.

Weasels ripped my flesh is wonderful morris

Check out directly from my heart to you

Thanks, will dial that up next!

Why are you bothering with Zappa, so much better stuff to listen to out there? There is quite a bit of mocking going on on "Cruising With Ruben & the Jets" btw.

Though the main problem with "Cruising With Ruben & the Jets" is it sounds like Zappa spent about 5 minutes on the arrangements and 30 minutes on the recording.

Eh, I've got Spotify and nothing but time while I work...

There is quite a bit of mocking going on on "Cruising With Ruben & the Jets" btw

it was made when all the serious rock bands were doing "back to the basics" and ripping off blues records. those are the targets of the mockery, not the doo wop itself (which is a style he has played his entire career)

anyways theres a lot of mockery in rock. Bob Dylan's entire career is built on sneering at conventions.

it was made when all the serious rock bands were doing "back to the basics" and ripping off blues records. those are the targets of the mockery, not the doo wop itself (which is a style he has played his entire career)

That's a bizarre theory, I must say. The lyrics of doo wop songs are definitely mocked and played for laughs by Zappa. Not all of the album is even doo wop anyway!

sure like usual there are many layers to the satire. but i don't think "doo wop music/50s rock is stupid" itself was one of the intend takes. like he hates lovey dovey lyrics but loves the music.

well yeah

the fact that you have to unwrap it a bit to figure out what he's making fun is what makes it unique. usually Frank ain't so subtle. (though lol @ Cruising with Ruben & the Jets being "subtle")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv6AiaaOOnY

i like "Charva", an early one he did in 1963. same wheelhouse but more Ramones (via singing about sniffing glue)

you can mock something that you like, even have affection for. see also MST3K

Well, I listened to Weasels... I dug the track "Get a Little" (it's too short, in fact!) -- both the lead gtr and bassline are very to my taste. The rest of the LP seems too noodly / chord-changey / listener-antagonistic to jell w/me.

"Get a Little" reminds me of the stuff on Plays That Good Old Rock And Roll, the 2002 album my main man Neil Hagerty (& crew)...

Weasels gets pretty skronky. It has some good stuff tho.

I tried and tried with Zappa but he's just fucking terrible

otm

decided to relisten to "Jumbo Go Away" just to see if it's as vile as I remember. it's actually much worse, though there is a crazy and brilliant middle section that sounds like the Residents on steroids. then afterwards "Jumbo better get back, or your eye will get black, once I give you a smack", filled by a minute of crying noises. anyway, long story short, I hate Frank Zappa now

Hard to think of a major figure who had such little sense of taste as to how to present his talent attractively

There's legends who alienate and rub fans the wrong way but it's hardly ever done as cheaply and as pointlessly

A Ghost is Born shouldn't end with the Late Greats right after the great Less Than You Think, which was the perfect ending.

BIKE IS FUCKING DOPE

I thought I was going to have to vouch hard for “Cassandra Gemini”, but as it is I just want to make the case that an 8-minute funereal jam session is a great final indulgence for a song that’s managed to maintain its energy so well for so long, esp. (as mentioned) when the chorus comes soaring back one last time at the end.

"shut up and play your guitar" is the other zappa album i like, just 3 CDs of guitar solos

Yeah that's one of the ones I owned once. Thought I would dig it! Maybe I'll try dipping back in.

probably doesn't count as it's a hidden track but "Hit to Death in the Future Head" has a nearly 30 minute harsh noise loop as a final track. i've never been able to listen to this great album all the way through.

my patience with songwriters who are either unable or unwilling to write a love song grows shorter as i grow older