Great albums with terrible last songs

"there's a killer on the road/his brain is squirming like a toad"

Never got why this was the go-to lol Jim Morrison lyric. Guy was like 27 when he wrote that, and while it isn't the most profound lyric ever written, Kurt Cobain wrote reams worse and no one ever picks on his stupid lyrics

sorry to derail, carry on

In terms of rock and roll toad lyrics I think Marc Bolan edges it with his "Hiding in the road/Like a Pasolini toad".

Honestly surprised by the Bike love. Is it just blasphemy to dismiss any Syd Barrett?

Not at all, it's a great song, almost sui generis Syd, toytown psych gone slightly psychotic.

If you ever hung out with stoner music guys in college (or were one), you would have a special place for “Bike” in yr heart!

Ha! I guess I'm missing the appropriate social context then.

Your the kind of girl who fits into my world
I’ll give you anything everything if you want things

Classic for that lyric alone

Yeah, there's also just value in a fun / silly (but not entirely silly) song... I actually think its closing position on that LP is perfect.

seems like if you like zany sing song whimsy like "Lucifer Sam" or "The Gnome" then "Bike" isn't really far off. idgi maybe there are Syd fans that are "Vegetable Man was a little too far, dude should've reigned it in" but personally anytime i hear a new Syd track no matter how shambolic im like please sir i'd like some more

as far as bad ending songs i was listening to Zappa's "We're Only In It For the Money" this morning and i love that album but i dont think i've made it through a single listen of "The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny" (and i _love_ Lumpy Gravy so noise collage isn't an auto turn off for me, it's just not very engaging coming after a dozen fast uptempo flower punk songs)

Also it's SIX AND HALF MINUTES long.

that's such a quintessential Zappa thing to do

You mean sticking an annoying piece of crap on one of his albums? Too right.

I'm sure many will disagree but Vitalogy by Pearl Jam is a great record, and the last "song" "Hey Foxymophandlemama, That's Me" stink to high heaven.

David Bowie - Heroes. The Secret Life of Arabia is not only the worst one in an otherwise classic album but it’s one of the worst in his entire discography. The last note of Neukoln should have been the real closer.

Absolutely agree, one of his worst songs-- but I don't think the rest of the album is "great" either.

Bowie was great at closers.

Also agree.

You mean sticking an annoying piece of crap on one of his albums? Too right.

not just any one of his albums, but one of his absolute best, the one that even his detractors could point to and say "I'd like Zappa if he was more like this". my working theory is that Zappa had a pathological fear of being liked by mainstream suits and paid curators of culture. if some dumb rock magazine gave him a 5 star review it would be an invalidation of his life's work and everything he stood for.

That’s actually one of, like, four Pearl Jam songs I’ve heard and idk I had a good time with it
Only song in this thread I firmly agree with so far is “Shake It”. Man the sequencing on Let’s Dance was dire (not that “basically the title track again but with overeager backing vocalists and a worse chord progression” would have been great shakes anywhere else on the record, but).

xp of course

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I'm listening to "We're Only in It for the Money" now, for the first time... due to the above comments and the currently active thread about the album.

...So you're telling me this is... Zappa at his *best and most accessible*(!!)??

I'm afraid so.

(Countdown to someone saying that you’re listening to the wrong *version*...)

best, for sure. most accessible, maybe not. but I will say if you don't like this you probably shouldn't bother with Zappa at all. the exception being Hot Rats, a nearly entirely instrumental record that's top notch fusion from top to bottom, and the one record in his catalogue he didn't see fit to 'ruin' in some way

(Countdown to someone saying that you’re listening to the wrong *version*...)

hey, I'll say this without a hint of irony. if the bass sounds like the Seinfeld theme, you've got the garbage '86 version with the re-recorded rhythm section, which Zappa recorded solely to screw over his past bandmates (not that he'd ever admit that, of course). before the Ryko remasters I think that one was the only one available on CD. but idk how available that version is anymore.

i would never call WOIIFTM his most accessible, all the vocals are sped up for one. look for "Hot Rats" or "Apostrophe" for accessible

"We're Only In It For the Money" doesn't sound much like any other Zappa album, so I wouldn't write off morrisp finding something to like among the 700 other albums he made.

I have had a few false starts in the past (I bought, and sold back, "Freak Out!" and "Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar") -- perhaps I am just not meant to be a Zappa fan.

Side 2 of "Heroes" is perfect in every way

Bowie is pretty much an unmatched master of the last song: Bewlay Brothers, Rock n Roll Suicide, Lady Grinning Soul, Subterraneans etc etc. Which makes Shake It pretty egregious in his discography, but no way is Let's Dance a great album. OK to good, perhaps.

With so many unannotated CD-only extras on anything remotely "classic", this is proving difficult.

Closer should have ended with "The Eternal". "Decades" is one of the weakest JD songs.

Green Eyes on The Boatman's Call is a big one for me. I'd be more than happy with Far From Me as the closer. I don't think I've listened to Green Eyes more than a couple of times and that's definitely my most played Nick Cave album.

"Decades"?! I don't really agree with anything that's been posted here (except the defenses), but I especially love that song.

Yes how could Decades be considered weak! I mean you can't imagine a better closer for Closer: "Each ritual showed up the door for our wanderings,
opened then shut, and slammed in our face..."

Decades is by favourite Joy Division song.

"caucasian lullaby" on slapp happy's "desperate straights"

Decades is also my fave Joy Division song (together with New Dawn Fades).
I don't mind Green Eyes at all.
I agree that Shake It is the only weak Bowie closer when he had brilliant album finals at least since his second album. Sometimes I'm feeling it with Shake It though.

Appreciate hearing the positive takes on Bike btw. I never thought of it as a good song but perhaps I should revisit it with a more open mind, it may very well 'click' after a while.
(Have to say I'm not the typical Pink Floyd fan anyway - I actually like the Ummagumma studio side, but don't care too much for the Wall, am not overly amazed by Animals - I strongly favour Gilmour post Dark Side.)

Closer should have ended with "The Eternal". "Decades" is one of the weakest JD songs.

wtf?!?!?

"caucasian lullaby" on slapp happy's "desperate straights"

Can't argue with this one though!

Morris if you didn’t like freak out (which is possibly the most accessible Zappa other than hot rats) then it’s probably not your bag

Zappa isn't weird enough for me

yep I've always thought of Zappa as the quintessential "if you can't handle me at my worst..." artist. if you don't like him at his best then just save your time and give up, there's so much great music out there where you don't have to subject yourself to an artist who deliberately tries to piss off even the people who like him

I'd still get Hot Rats though, but only that one

seems like if you like zany sing song whimsy like "Lucifer Sam" or "The Gnome" then "Bike" isn't really far off. idgi maybe there are Syd fans that are "Vegetable Man was a little too far, dude should've reigned it in" but personally anytime i hear a new Syd track no matter how shambolic im like please sir i'd like some more

― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau)

Ha this are my 3 favorite songs from Piper. My favorite Syd Barrett song is See Emily Play though... whoever decided to leave it out of piper made the wrong choice.

Is Hot Rats really considered more accessible than Freak Out? Freak Out is the only Zappa album I've heard that I like. Hot Rats was just endless noodling.

depends who you ask I guess. I don't think people are really coming to Zappa for 'accessibility', if you wanted that then you'd be better off with, I dunno, Over-nite Sensation or something. I think it's accessible in that it doesn't do anything to turn the listener off.

xp to self I suppose Absolutely Free is OK and I like My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama off Weasels Ripped My Flesh, but that's about it.

Ha this are my 3 favorite songs from Piper. My favorite Syd Barrett song is See Emily Play though... whoever decided to leave it out of piper made the wrong choice.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, April 12, 2018 9:12 AM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The original US version had See Emily Play on it. It was apparently considered bad form in the UK at the time to put hit singles on your album, whereas in the US it was expected that a new album would have the current single(s) on it, with the presence of hit singles used to promote albums. I like "Emily" as well as "Arnold Layne" and "Apples and Oranges" better than anything on Piper.

xposts
It’s funny ‘cuz I like a lot of stuff that seems “Zappa adjacent,” both in style and approach... I read about Zappa music, and it sounds like something I would like... but then when I listen to it, I’m basically “Oh HELL no....”

I gave “Freak Out” a good chance, and I thought I might dig the all-guitar album (I like good playing...)

when I started listening to Zappa I found Hot Rats to be one of the more accessible albums mainly because it has no Frank Zappa vocals or comedy monologues on it

A common reason given for liking certain Zappa albums. Personally, I find those the instrumental jazz-rock of Zappa dull as ditchwater.

those instrumental jazz-rock albums. Jesus, my typing.

Hot Rats has the massive advantage of Beefheart singing on the only track w/ lyrics.