Bang Bang You're Dead... POLL In Your Head - ILM Artist Poll #87 - SMASHING PUMPKINS - Results

behind me the grace of falling snow
cover up everything you know
come save me from the awful sound
of nothing

that’s one of my favorite corgan verses

I like "Behind me the grace of falling snow/Cover up everything you know". His diction seems really obscured to me on that song.

"Shame" was my #7. It's maybe the only long SP track whose epic-ness doesn't sound forced. There are no extended solos, shifts in tempo, weird vocal interludes or any other cues that might imply that they're planning to go long. The groove just locks in and keeps going.

I figured it was a given that all of SD would place in the top 66 but never thought that all, or nearly all, of Adore would.

Spotify: ILM The Smashing Pumpkins

up to date and at 2:42 long (31-88) so far...

thanks for those who are keeping the Spotify up to date!

'I Am One' and especially 'Beautiful' are both far, far too low. 'To Forgive' is way too high and I'm glad to see 'Bullet With Butterfly Wings' outside the Top 25... if there was ever a classic Pumpkins song that I got bored of fast, it was that one - even 'Today' still has a lot of gas left in the tank for me.

Sh-sh-sh-sh-shame I'm missing most of the roll-out due to work, but: I adore the images, the placings, the insightful comments and the banter, the faith, compassion and love <3

Quiet and To Forgive both get a TOO LOW from me, Quiet has always been my favourite of the band's hard rock songs, especially love the shift into 3/4 during the solo. To Forgive just unfurls beautifully. Shame and To Sheila are two Adore tracks I wish I could've made room for.

Bullet With Butterfly Wings isn't a great song but it's an iconic one that might have been their most important song in terms of bringing them to a new level of superstardom. I have a lot of good memories associated with it for that reason but without that context it doesn't really stand out for me on the album twenty years later.

who voted Beautiful as their #1? thank you.

― flappy bird, Saturday, 7 April 2018 01:34 (nine hours ago)

hi! alternated between this & "Farewell & Goodnight" as my #1; semi-wished I'd gone for the latter to mirror your #1 for the title track! had a semi-haphazard ballot as I haven't really listened to the SPs since the 90s but I sort've agree with

OK here's a challop: the heavy songs on MCIS sound forced, and if SP weren't buzzbinned and earmarked as the next Nirvana (and of course complied with that) then the album would have been Beautiful, Thirty-Three, Tonight Tonight, Galapogos, Porcelina, Lily, 1979 et al.
SD sounds like Billy had some jams to kick out, and with Vig achieved the zenith of the guitar rock assault record, but on MCIS the rawk is a facsimile, and the beautiful melodic songs are where their hearts were. Adore was a relief for that reason.

― startled macropod (MatthewK), Saturday, 7 April 2018 01:15 (nine hours ago)

& personally I can't really get near guitar-heavy SPs without sensations of nausea (& geez that first couplet in "Ava Adore") - probably should have revisited the Thirty-Three b-sides more when putting together my ballot.

For me BWBW is too self consciously the loud-quiet-loud template and a can't-believe-it's-not-Nirvana bid to assume the mantle of alt-rock sovereignty - previously the Pumpkins' huge songs were lengthy buildups and revelled in their excess, whereas this is off-on-off-on. But that early performance above has an intro talking about Virgin Records and "if you don't like it we won't be able to do the next album" - tongue in cheek but with a grain of truth I'll bet.
I wonder if Billy was driven by a sense of competition with Kurt, even. If he was still hung up on Courtney.

starting #30 to #21 now

https://i.imgur.com/GriIYk6.jpg
30. Hello Kitty Kat
294 points, 14 votes
From: Today single, 1993 and Pisces Iscariot, 1994

oh and 1 #1 vote there too

My #4. It moves so well. I think I compared the outro to 70s Aerosmith before.

I wonder if Billy was driven by a sense of competition with Kurt, even. If he was still hung up on Courtney.

― startled macropod (MatthewK), Saturday, April 7, 2018 11:08 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Corgan was driven by a sense of competition with everybody - he really did want the Pumpkins to be massive in a U2 sense and had no interest in being a cult act. I remember one article in Q Magazine circa 1995 or 1996 about the old TV show The White Room, where The Cardigans were asked "how does it feel to be on the same show as The Smashing Pumpkins?" to which they replied "you should ask them how they feel to be on the same show as The Cardigans" ... so, the journalist did! Corgan hit the roof, pretty much, at the idea that anyone could possibly be more successful. His response was pretty much "What the fuck? Have we missed the boat, or what?" - The Cardigans, of course, weren't even anywhere near on the same level of popularity as the Pumpkins, but for a moment Corgan shat himself at the thought that his popularity was being eclipsed.

I'm sure that Corgan felt a bit of a rivalry with Kurt due to the Courtney thing, but while I could imagine Corgan being envious of the success of Nevermind or In Utero, I couldn't see Kurt being much into the Punpkins, just based of what everyone knows about his music taste and his feelings towards huge bands. The Pumpkins seemed to be everything Kurt didn't want Nirvana to be.

https://i.imgur.com/556aPBC.jpg
29. Snail
310 points, 11 votes
From: Gish, 1991

Maybe the best song I didn't vote for

YES! Love this song - really glad to see this in the Top 30.

Two solid tracks right here.

My #2! It's majestic.

Snail is one of my favourites on Gish, a clear predecessor to the epics from SD and MCIS

https://i.imgur.com/nA6OPAi.jpg
28. Siva
314 points, 13 votes, 1 #1 vote
From: Gish, 1991

Another Gish classic - this was my favourite track on the LP for a long time.

https://i.imgur.com/Rui58bF.jpg
27. Frail and Bedazzled
322 points, 11 votes, 1 #1 vote
From: Pisces Iscariot, 1994

two of the best tracks on gish bookended by two of the best tracks on pisces

this poll is awesome

My #4. It moves so well. I think I compared the outro to 70s Aerosmith before.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, April 7, 2018 5:55 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's a great comparison

It's looking like the sweet spot on this poll is going to be the 30s-20s. . . ; )

I feel like "Frail & Bedazzled" is their most fun song, even though I'm sure the lyrics are dour (don't pay much attention). By their early standards, it's almost "punk" in its impactfulness. It's not exactly danceable, of course, but it's certainly. . . move-able?

https://i.imgur.com/uMKV2mp.jpg
26. Zero
328 points, 13 votes
From: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

'Zero' EP b-sides >>>> "Zero"

But, at least "Zero" >>>> "Bullet With Butterfly Wings"

https://media.giphy.com/media/3orif9aE75fGBSjsqs/giphy.gif

....

I don't know if I understand a world where "Zero" is locked out of the top 25 of a poll like this. My #2.

https://i.imgur.com/xBQIvK8.jpg
25. Whir
336 points, 11 votes, 1 #1 vote
From: Pisces Iscariot, 1994

YES

Billy would probably literally kill to be able to make something as good as "Whir" today, which at the time didn't even rate b-side status.

The outro alone

wait i have to backtrack to "behold! the night mare" briefly bc there are so many amazing things about this song:

1. the bridge
1a. the harmonies in the bridge!
2. the completely broken guitar solo that comes after the bridge
3. this bridge/guitar solo section essentially happens in the middle of a verse?

This was my #3. What a magical song.

Re:whir

https://i.imgur.com/Q5s5ADJ.jpg
24. Silverfuck
338 points, 13 votes
From: Siamese Dream, 1993

LIIIIARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

yeah the structure of Behold! The Night Mare is really odd and I love it. it's something like this:
verse A
verse B (the wind blows etc.)
pre-chorus
chorus
verse B
acoustic bridge
beautiful 2 note guitar noise solo
second bridge
pre-chorus
chorus
verse A

good song. the swirls in the background make it for me.

Cripes, I'm already just totally behind. Well, here's a Saturday morning wall of text catching up, don't mind me...

"The Boy" - nice discovery! pleasant little James number. i'm okay with it not being on the album; it sounds like such a completely different band - like the Lemonheads/Gin Blossoms college-y wing of alt-rock. "Farewell and Goodnight" clicks in well and I think the trading-off of verses for a "farewell" song is a nice, sweet-feeling move.

"Glass and the Ghost Children" - - - I switched to skipping this very early in owning this album so I really feel like I'm listening to this for the first time. The bassline is like someone playing "X.Y.U." slower and without much interest. The mix is bad, over-busy and washy without getting anything like the shoegazey quality of the dreamier early-90s tracks. Chord changes are meant to be emotional and evocative but there's no hooks. Everything I didn't like about Machina really. Maybe it's a grower but there's very little to grab you on a first-time listen and it's so long. I like the little bits of other ideas like the flute........... and now several minutes later it's a muffled telephone call over piano? This is just a mess. The more classically Billy part coming in after that is at least kind of pretty and atmospheric I guess. Feel like if it was just a song by itself it'd be an OK b-side but still a hookless one.

"X.Y.U." itself ruled when I first got the album but I just burned out on it. The "Mary's got a problem" section is really cool and the KAAAAAAAAAABOOOOOM! was such a great sugar rush of rat-in-a-cage rage but I just can't get interested in the plodding and thrashing elsewhere.

"Suffer" is one of the many Gish tracks I don't know by name but immediately remember, and like, as soon as the first few seconds start. Nice sound, kinda evocative of something dark or queasy. Without all the layers of guitar and classic-rock soaring, this is a very tight band playing kinda gothy, kinda shoegazey songs in dingy smoke-filled clubs while you bob your head and sway a little. Agreed with BN about the "secret chorus" and its psychedelic qualities. Was just about to say that it would do well soundtracking generic 1967 footage of tripping hippies doing weird dances in the park. Versus "Glass and the..." the spacey aimlessness makes it good atmospheric music rather than suggesting a band out of ideas. Same basic story with "Crush," though that's lighter and more hopeful. Super lovely tracks, and great evidence for the discussion we were having a while back about whether the bass playing matters in this band.

"Tear" almost made my ballot in honor of my teenaged self. I was just getting into Zep and the Kashmir quality totally won me over. I wish it came back more to the hushed Lost Highway verses, which nail some of what I was hoping for on this album after "Eye." The busy/muddy quality of the mix does suggest where we might be headed on the next album. Oddly it's reminding me more than anything of some the loop-based tracks on Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie, some of which I think also went for a bit of ""Eastern"" sonic affectation.

"Real Love" didn't stand out to me when I first got ahold of Machina 2 but it sounds okay now! VERY much a Machina-era recording and would have done fine in the midst of the album. Still hard not to want to hear a serious remix, get the drums to really rock and pop out of the wash of guitars and vocals.

re: "Ava Adore": lol at "Behold this tableau of grotesquery!", otm.

"Wound" stuck around in my shortlist until the very end, kinda suprrising given my feelings about that album but it was getting stuck in my head a lot while working on the ballot. The hookiest thing on the record? "Last night I turned around...."

Always forget about "Pug." Another very Eye-like track but maybe missing some of its intensity. The "KISS KISS" bit is great.

Dope to see "Age of Innocence" place!!! I made room for it at #17, higher than I thought it'd be, but every time I looked at the list, it just made sense above the stuff below it. The best song on Machina IMHO and the most focused for sure. Great, great closer, hitting appropriate notes of apocalyptic gloom without losing a sense of urgency - whatever's going on here, grim though it is, it's happening, not just being described or sketched in as part of the concept or w/e. "I of the Mourning" is also great, didn't make the cut for me but was in there til the end.

Love "Cupid de Locke" in all its doe-eyed "I'm writing poetry!" sweetness, "hath" and all.

Voted "By Starlight" as my representative of the late Disc 2 suite though I kinda wish I'd gone with "Beautiful" or "Lily" for their quirkiness. But that "at laaaaaaast" really pushes it over the top.

Hoooooly cow "Where Boys Fear To Tread" is TOO LOW!!! My #5. The exact right kind of heavy rocker for this band at this point - gives me everything, renders like three or four other songs on the album redundant. That riff! That opening! Get on, get on, get on the bomb... Great track.

I also think "Eye" is too low but I couldn't really explain why without resorting to "it seemed like such an exciting thing for this band to do when it came out." Love the distorted section towards the end, though now I wonder how much it was inspired by NIN (which seemed obvious) versus Tom Morello's record-scratch guitar playing...

Never given "Glynis" the time of day before. Nice track though in that Gishy way, turning more SD-like as it goes somehow. I like the little burst of very weird solo-ing (which now is again making me think of Morello!) thrown in there. Is that a harmonica? One of the more positive-vibe Pumpkins tracks? "I believe - yeah!" Cool song!

"Night Mare" just barely made it onto my ballot at #24, and I'm glad to see it make it this high! Not a song you hear much about I think but I think it's one of the most completely-written things on Adore - good verse, good chorus, good bridge. The "special effects" in the mix feel like they're adding to the mood rather than just layering it up.

"Bury Me" - I hear the Jane's Addiction connection but this also makes me think a lot of Badmotorfinger. There was this general stew of pre-grunge "alternative" that the Pumpkins were marinating in, but Billy's vocals and writing give it a very distinct quality. The backing vocals are nice too (actaully James and D'Arcy, right, and not more Billys?). I love where it goes in the last minute with the fast, high harmonics - these Gish tracks have so many great instrumental parts that I always forget are coming.

"Bodies" rules but I honestly think of it as an extension of "Where Boys Fear To Tread," like a This Beat Goes On/Switchin' To Glide deal.

"Bullet..." is a dope rocker IMHO but I wouldn't fault anybody who finds its self-serious goth teen preening insufferable. IMHO it's one of their best "singles" in terms of a tight little rock song with big hooks and hidden variety to keep you coming back, like the little guitar line that comes in under "...and what do you want?" Dialing back down for a quiet version of the chorus only to then give us the CAAAAAAAAAAAAGE and then "still just a rat in, still just a rat in a..." A brilliant update of the bass-heavy gothy sound of Gish, now married to one of the biggest, most telegraphed choruses they ever did (great pre-chorus getting us there). Cheap Trick or the Sweet couldn't have done better. At the time I found it strange that this was one of the random current songs my dad could kind of get behind but I think even he had to respect that hook.

great post doc

https://i.imgur.com/sSIxeYR.jpg
23. Tonight, Tonight
348 points, 14 votes
From: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995