Number of Good Songs Had By the Smashing Pumkings

despite all yr rage iirc

I'm struggling through Mellon Collie and it's basically just this sea of bad music with two toweringly brilliant epics in the middle - TTEOR especially feels like the work of a different band

my theory is that they didn't have enough collective energy to fully work through their songs, so they put a lot into a few of them and basically knocked the rest out without really thinking. like, Zero is a nice idea that could really go somewhere and...doesn't. and then again that's one of the rare good ideas to begin with. most of these songs don't seem to have had much put into the original conception

have you struggled through pisces iscariot

I can provide a Paypal address?

i don't own it but have u tried the internet?

Pumpkins are over and done but have boatloads of great songs.

What most amuses me is how a topic like this actually brings all the ilm boys to the yard, in 2018. Well played NV, well played.

my gourd is better than yours

resist aligning their whole schtick with my music taste personally

― Planck Blather (darraghmac), Tuesday, February 20, 2018 2:18 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

im basically saying i dont buy into the mythic grandeur of the Pumpkins project but i do think they made a decent number of good songs, idk what's weird abt that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps3SQJhn1aI

I agree with D-40 on the "there is no mythic grandeur to this high grift" but disagree on the "is even one note of theirs worth playing twice" position

have felt like the world was trolling me on this band for two-plus decades now, Christ they suck

or i should say i think flapz just wanted to talk shit abt pavement and drag em into the pumpking patch

Your outright hatred surprises me. I mean, you can think they suck, for sure, but it's almost as if it's personal.

You're such diametrical opposites it's hard for me to grasp why you'd invest in hatred for this band instead of, y'know, shrug it off. (though I will always defend your right to hate bands with a passion, obviously)

xp to j0hn

Heard Garbage pink and orange albums today at the gym. They have at least 2.5 good songs in them.

Garbage One: Vow and Stupid Girl are 1.5. Queer and Only Happy When it rains a .5 each.

2.0: the first four singles are a .5 each. The rest of the album a .5

if you don't like their music, you have to at least give billy some credit. he had a good contract while playing the human brother in Small Wonder, and he could have sat on those millions.

Never liked Stupid Girl.

just started listening to this album (garbage). Supervixen is reasonably enjoyable, looking at the track list, I'm remembering that "As Heaven is Wide" is the track I liked a lot. I'll post an update when I get there.

Supervixen, OHWIR, Vow and Stupid Girl would have been a stellar EP

Rest of the album isn't too bad either. Much better than any SP record anyway

how were the ideas, though?

You don't like Siamese Dream, imago? I'm actually a little surprised.

LJ, I refuse to believe you really think the second disc of Mellon Collie is a "sea of shit". It simply must tickle even your specific progge fancy.

(you said sea of bad music, sorry :)

does the drummer use sticks to strike the drum heads? that seems like a fine idea for any song.

Siamese Dream never really clicked with me although I'll probably try it out again. Is it Soma that's the OK one, or Hummer? I forget haha

Second side of Mellon Collie has better hit-rate than first. Apart from the enormous Ruby we've got...I mean, TOASE is pleasingly abrasive, as is XYU, and By Starlight is nice I guess

"Soma" and "Hummer" are probably my two favourites.

Soma Hummer, happened so fast

Hummer is my fave SP song, just before 'Set the Ray to Jerry'. Love the great music this band gave me when 16, but also luv2laugh at all this. NV on the ~Zeitgeist~ yall.

Billy playing all the bass parts etc in the studio just confirmed his place as the shit yank Noel Gallagher

dmac mercilessly calling out bonehead and guigsy itt

iet

Your outright hatred surprises me. I mean, you can think they suck, for sure, but it's almost as if it's personal.

what can I say, I was in my early 20s when they became successful, and I was like...the last ten years of work in the underground are yielding...this??? and then people signing onto it when the dude has never written a lyric worth remembering

I take shit this bad personally, yeah

my boredom has outshone the sun
it's so dumb
I just want to have some
little fun
*guitar solo*

we made out to cupid de locke
we slam danced to cherub rock
*guitar solo*

I can relate to JCLC's hatred of BC's lyrics, but I do think some of the Adore era stuff is actually pretty strong in this regard, definitely helped along by the fact that it was driven by genuine loss as opposed to the usual petty treacheries. There was some unity of delivery, content and intent there I don't think is matched on any of the other records.

I agree wholeheartedly, though I doubt JCLC took note of those lyrics, and I really can't blame him for holding a grudge. Corgan wrote some shitty lyrics. But also wrote lots of good ones, but that was probably when a lot of people had already signed off.

Adore is real though. In terms of lyrics and music - regardless of who played what instrument (lol billy all of them). But especially lyrics, or dealing with death in the family.

2.5 obv

terrible horrible bands. i'm happy all the 90s bands are dying/dead.

i'll never forget the first time i heard pumpkin spice, i started running to my radio to hit the "OFF" button but i didn't make it in time and i threw up all over myself thank you so much pumpkins i ruined my brand new carpet because of your nauseating music

donrickles

Is Noel Gallagher the shit Brit Billy Corgan though, deems?

can only vote if you confirm that the Pearl Jam song with Cypress Hill on vocals instead of Vedder counts

still waiting for the go-ahead to say this band had one good song, NV

Hijacking this thread.

Xxxxpost: stupid girl was one of their better songs live tho

https://youtu.be/D3V0Nkub3U4

Listening to Siamese Dream because of this thread, "Disarm" should have been a warning sign for how it was going to go horribly wrong.

I have to say also that burning SP for their lyrics against other big bands of the period is weird to me, like I love PJ and Soundgarden too but I would never highlight their lyrics *in particular* as being all that great

definitely helped along by the fact that it was driven by genuine loss as opposed to the usual petty treacheries.

Gish and Siamese Dream are largely about child abuse and trauma

In which case, it's a weakness of BC's lyrics and delivery that the thematic seriousness rarely lands. Again, not an issue with Adore.

I get what you're saying re: "petty treacheries" as there's a lot of that on Mellon Collie ("Zero," "X.Y.U.", "Fuck You") and some on SD ("Soma"). but Mellon Collie also has "To Forgive"... I mean, that's about Billy's dad beating him on his birthday. I know that doesn't necessarily beget great lyrics, but Adore wasn't breaking new ground so much as maturing, and like you said there is a real unity of vision and voice on that record that isn't present on the more cocky & adolescent records that preceded it.

xp

yeah I understand that, though I'd say "To Forgive" is the exception, a song that would probably fit in the Adore song cycle better than anything else on MCIS or before. "Disarm" too but the ostentatious arrangement on SD really obscures the pain of the song. I never liked "Disarm," but this solo mellotron & voice arrangement from the In Plainsong shows in 2016 absolutely blew me away. Made me hear the song in a totally new way which I didn't think was possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPymWbq2GD4

Thanks for that clip - love the mic hit.

haha i know! and Billy's bleat cutting out- so funny how it's so short but immediately recognizable