Tusk Vs The White Album

'Go Your Own Way' and 'You Make Loving Fun' would still be perfect pop that is impeccably produced and well written and performed even if the lyrics to the songs were complete fantasy. It's actually quite easy to ignore the backstory and not invest in the soap opera element, which doesn't really interest me. What interests me more about that era of Fleetwood Mac is the vocal blend, Lindsey's guitar playing and the hooks.

(xxpost)

also gaucho slaps front to back, you’re wrong, log off

i am very open to contrarian opinions that try to undo received wisdom and canonization, unfortunately this opinion is the product of like, inattentive listening and bullshit posturing

...or in other words: "Wahhhhhh! I don't like what I'm reading, so I'll throw my rattle out of the pram!"

One of the benefits of being gay is I don't listen to music and hear biography. It's quite easy to listen to TUSK without the Mac mythos, thank you.

It's actually quite easy to ignore the backstory and not invest in the soap opera element, which doesn't really interest me.

EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY, IT DOESN'T INTEREST TURRICAN, LETS NOT DISCUSS IT

the vocal blend, Lindsey's guitar playing and the hooks

idk these just don't do it for me, they just feel of a piece with any number of lite/country-rock 70s bands like the Little River Band or the Doobie Brothers or the Eagles or some shit. there's a gloss and some competent harmonizing and everything's clean and smooth but I just don't give a fuck about it, much less think it's *amazing* And I've never really read any effusive praise of Mac that *didn't* go into the mythology/backstory, I feel like that's always brought in at some point - as a selling point for how emotionally impactful and "deep" the songs are, the pain and complex emotions being conveyed - and it feels like weak sauce. There's any other number of 70s classic rock dinosaurs that engage me on just a technical and performative and compositional level (Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Heart, ZZ Top, Steely Dan on and on) and the Mac don't cut it.

xp

dude listen to "albatross"

And I've never really read any effusive praise of Mac that *didn't* go into the mythology/backstory

oh give me a break, try ILX threads praising FM for starters

and if you're talking about rolling stone magazine or something, who cares

they just feel of a piece with any number of lite/country-rock 70s bands like the Little River Band or the Doobie Brothers or the Eagles or some shit.

dude seriously

turrican doesn’t read this board, he just posts here

oh lol sorry that was shakey. shakey you’re wrong

Hopper's breakdown of Rumours here goes explicitly into the autobiographical nature of each song

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/17499-rumours/

xp

also i’m pretty pro little river band and the doobies

Shakey, if you don't hear what distinguishes the British blues rhythm section + and their husky-voiced emollient anchoring a pair of Californian weirdos with odd senses of harmony and one of whom had a ear for the possibilities of the studio as sharp as Eno's, then, yeah, Fleetwood Mac sound like Little River Band and Pablo Cruise.

fleetwood are definitely no zz top, lol

wait LITTLE RIVER BAND?!? oh dear

He opens the record with the libidinous "Second Hand News", inspired by the redemption Buckingham was finding in new women, post-Stevie.

... "Second Hand News" is followed by a twist-of-the-knife Stevie-showpiece, "Dreams", a gauzy ballad about what she'd had and what she'd lost with Buckingham.

... "Songbird" starts as a plaintive ode of fealty and how total her devotion-- until the sad tell of "And I wish you all the love in the world/ But most of all I wish it from myself," (an especially heart-wrenching line given that McVie's not quite ex-husband was dragging a rebound model chick to the sessions and Christine was sneaking around with a member of the crew).

... and so much more

I'm pretty smug about never once using their relationships as a key to unlock those deeply strange pop albums.

ok.. that's not why people care about those songs... they're just great songs. people aren't critics.

that certainly is one piece of writing about fleetwood mac

xxp

but why does a critic's weakness for the mythos affect your enjoyment? I don't get this conflation of biography + music, it's so bizarre to me.

bc the white album is a great record, it sometimes feels like listening to three albums at once, even when i don’t like a song on it i’m drawn in by the vibe and atmosphere which yes is v shambolic that’s why it’s good

Y'see, I don't agree that it feels like listening to three albums at once either, even if you can hear hints of their future solo work (particularly Paul's, not so much George's) ... it sounds like a Beatles record, although an at times substandard one.

I'll never be convinced that the band set out to make a shambolic record, I think it just turned out that way. I do believe that they were big headed enough to think that everything they were writing was great, so just threw it all in there, and to ensure they could get a double album out that year, rushed the recordings. I think it was as simple at that.

you're getting too imaginative

how many times have you expressed this same opinion

Perish the thought. (xp)

husky-voiced emollient

oh you think you can turn my head with yr bon mots

turrican doesn’t read this board, he just posts here

― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, October 30, 2017 9:07 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Brad, if you're going to fantasise, at least go to town. Pretend you're writing about Zayn Malik and geodes again.

but why does a critic's weakness for the mythos affect your enjoyment?

I just get annoyed when people bring it up, and it happens *a lot* w the Mac. Generally (like you) I don't find conflating biography w music helpful or interesting when it comes to appreciating something

oh you think you can turn my head with yr bon mots

― Οὖτις, Monday, October 30, 2017

What do I have to do to make you love me?

xp it happens a lot with the mac if you hang out with like jann werner or something, everybody else if just like "fuck yeah the mac!"

I was in a hotel room w some friends a couple months ago and a live Fleetwood Mac thing was on TV and I actually had to listen to one of them recount the soap opera to me so yes, it happens.

Jann Wenner was not present at this gathering.

Alfred and brimstead are OTM, it's quite possible to appreciate the Buckingham/Nicks era of Fleetwood Mac without dwelling on the soap opea element. The music transcends that sort of thing, I think.

The band (at times) have been guilty of pandering to some people's grim fascination with the backstory - they shouldn't.

It's like when the Beatles wrote songs in their solo career about the Beatles - they were just knowingly adding to the mythology while pandering to those that believed in the mythology. If there ever was a band that believed their own hype.

if there were more than only five total things you thought about

Record Player: "Yes we're going to a party party! Yes we're going to a party party!"

Random Beatles Fan: *puts their hands on their head* "Arrrgh! Impending doom!"

I worry about you

not as much as carpet kaiser but still

If there ever was a band that believed their own hype.

LOLz

If only Elvis hadn't started believing his own PR.

iirc Rakim's work started to suffer as soon as he began to believe he really was the greatest rapper of all time

can't blame rakim for "rappy raccoon," though. that was eric b's fault.

listening to music is a zero sum battle. although certain songs and albums like the white album can be naively enjoyed by those who do not know how to correctly listen and feel emotions, their pleasure is ultimately empty and inauthentic and wrong. it is one poster's quest to make sure that everyone knows exactly where the lines of taste are drawn and dose the water supply with red pills of musical truth

What has always bothered me about FM was the slick production. It distracts from the fact that the songs are often musically quite poor. The "sloppy" production of the White Album on the other hand is almost its trump, the Beatles do their own thing and don't care too much about the make-up. The white album has one of the most awful, annoying songs of the universe on it, I am talking of Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da and it also has Julia the greatest and most tender love song in pop music. And Helter Skelter, afaik the first hard-rock song. The scope of the white album is so amazingly huge, whereas Tusk just has some glossy quite similar boring mostly MOR songs on it. It hardly ever touches me. I would save one song from it, Sara which is sublime. I must admit that I only have listened once to Tusk but I don't need to listen again. I grew up in the 70s and I had my fair dose of over-produced FM. The white album

What has always bothered me about FM was the slick production. It distracts from the fact that the songs are often musically quite poor.

you aren't serious, are you?

and how are "Save Me a Place," "That's All For Everyone," "Not That Funny," "Think About Me," and "Sisters of the Moon" MOR? They sound like Kenny Rogers and Air Supply?

Helter Skelter, afaik the first hard-rock song

no

Hold fire on that till Turrican confirms whether it is or not.

I maintain that the sloppiness basically amounts to the handful of beginnings and endings I mentioned, the weird edits on "Helter Skelter" and "Yer Blues" and the two McCartney throwaways. Take any other songs/moments from the record and they are comparable to other '68-era Beatle recordings ("Lady Madonna," "The Inner Light," "Hey Bulldog," "Across the Universe," "Hey Jude") and could have been a part of an album where *intentional sloppiness* never came into the discussion.