Tusk Vs The White Album

As far as I'm aware, The Beatles was generally considered to be a patchy record on release. So I guess this is like Gaucho in the sense that people got it right in the first place.

The Gaucho was Paul, BTW.

-----George Martin wasn't always around; the record's mostly self-produced.

Geoff Emerick was though, the sound/roughness is all as intended.

Brad totally otm above

Not even Geoff Emerick was around all the time.

divining intent re: "sloppiness" is a fool's game

Luckily we have a fool to hand.

quite

Guys, it's 2017 and not all of you are baby boomers clinging onto the notion that things were, like, soooooo much better back in the day - it's fully acceptable to admit that not everything The Beatles did was/is great and you can call out these records for what they are instead of listening to 'em through the layers of bullshit mythology that's accumulated over the decades.

Spoken like a true Fleetwood Mac fan.

hahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Aside from 'Revolution 9', 'Good Night' and 'Piggies', that's just a series of folk or rock songs.

― Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Friday, October 27, 2017 3:20 PM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

come on dude you can say this about literally any album

tusk? that's just a series of pop songs.
a love supreme? that's just a series of jazz songs
to pimp a butterfly? that's just a series of rap songs

Well, y'know, I don't think about the break-up's and affairs when I listen to Rumours or Tusk - the music stands strong apart from all that backstory stuff, as great music should.

strong disagreement from me there

http://www.manowar-gallery.com/Gallery/Other_Recordings/Death_To_False_Metal/death_mc_II_g.jpg

esp given how willfully built around that mythology something like Rumours is, what with Stevie using her diary entries to compose lyrics etc., so much self-absorbed "confessional" crap all over the place.

I know I am in the minority as a Mac hater (see also: Bruce Willis, Michael Jackson) but I have a hard time peeling back the layers of bullshit from the Nicks-Buckingham era to get to anything interesting

xp

tusk? that's just a series of pop songs.

Hmmyeah, I don't think anyone is disputing this.

i am very open to contrarian opinions that try to undo received wisdom and canonization, unfortunately this opinion is the product of like, inattentive listening and bullshit posturing (just like the opinion about gaucho expressed pointlessly upthread and throughout several threads about that record) bc the white album is a great record, it sometimes feels like listening to three albums at once, even when i don’t like a song on it i’m drawn in by the vibe and atmosphere which yes is v shambolic that’s why it’s good

like my answer to the thread’s question is tusk bc that album is v v important to me and shaped my taste v early on but i don’t feel the need to be a huge shithead about it, telling truths about how the white album isn’t actually that good or whatever. how dumb. why listen to or think about music like that ever

'Go Your Own Way' and 'You Make Loving Fun' would still be perfect pop that is impeccably produced and well written and performed even if the lyrics to the songs were complete fantasy. It's actually quite easy to ignore the backstory and not invest in the soap opera element, which doesn't really interest me. What interests me more about that era of Fleetwood Mac is the vocal blend, Lindsey's guitar playing and the hooks.

(xxpost)

also gaucho slaps front to back, you’re wrong, log off

i am very open to contrarian opinions that try to undo received wisdom and canonization, unfortunately this opinion is the product of like, inattentive listening and bullshit posturing

...or in other words: "Wahhhhhh! I don't like what I'm reading, so I'll throw my rattle out of the pram!"

One of the benefits of being gay is I don't listen to music and hear biography. It's quite easy to listen to TUSK without the Mac mythos, thank you.

It's actually quite easy to ignore the backstory and not invest in the soap opera element, which doesn't really interest me.

EVERYBODY, EVERYBODY, IT DOESN'T INTEREST TURRICAN, LETS NOT DISCUSS IT

the vocal blend, Lindsey's guitar playing and the hooks

idk these just don't do it for me, they just feel of a piece with any number of lite/country-rock 70s bands like the Little River Band or the Doobie Brothers or the Eagles or some shit. there's a gloss and some competent harmonizing and everything's clean and smooth but I just don't give a fuck about it, much less think it's *amazing* And I've never really read any effusive praise of Mac that *didn't* go into the mythology/backstory, I feel like that's always brought in at some point - as a selling point for how emotionally impactful and "deep" the songs are, the pain and complex emotions being conveyed - and it feels like weak sauce. There's any other number of 70s classic rock dinosaurs that engage me on just a technical and performative and compositional level (Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Heart, ZZ Top, Steely Dan on and on) and the Mac don't cut it.

xp

dude listen to "albatross"

And I've never really read any effusive praise of Mac that *didn't* go into the mythology/backstory

oh give me a break, try ILX threads praising FM for starters

and if you're talking about rolling stone magazine or something, who cares

they just feel of a piece with any number of lite/country-rock 70s bands like the Little River Band or the Doobie Brothers or the Eagles or some shit.

dude seriously

turrican doesn’t read this board, he just posts here

oh lol sorry that was shakey. shakey you’re wrong

Hopper's breakdown of Rumours here goes explicitly into the autobiographical nature of each song

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/17499-rumours/

xp

also i’m pretty pro little river band and the doobies

Shakey, if you don't hear what distinguishes the British blues rhythm section + and their husky-voiced emollient anchoring a pair of Californian weirdos with odd senses of harmony and one of whom had a ear for the possibilities of the studio as sharp as Eno's, then, yeah, Fleetwood Mac sound like Little River Band and Pablo Cruise.

fleetwood are definitely no zz top, lol

wait LITTLE RIVER BAND?!? oh dear

He opens the record with the libidinous "Second Hand News", inspired by the redemption Buckingham was finding in new women, post-Stevie.

... "Second Hand News" is followed by a twist-of-the-knife Stevie-showpiece, "Dreams", a gauzy ballad about what she'd had and what she'd lost with Buckingham.

... "Songbird" starts as a plaintive ode of fealty and how total her devotion-- until the sad tell of "And I wish you all the love in the world/ But most of all I wish it from myself," (an especially heart-wrenching line given that McVie's not quite ex-husband was dragging a rebound model chick to the sessions and Christine was sneaking around with a member of the crew).

... and so much more

I'm pretty smug about never once using their relationships as a key to unlock those deeply strange pop albums.

ok.. that's not why people care about those songs... they're just great songs. people aren't critics.

that certainly is one piece of writing about fleetwood mac

xxp

but why does a critic's weakness for the mythos affect your enjoyment? I don't get this conflation of biography + music, it's so bizarre to me.

bc the white album is a great record, it sometimes feels like listening to three albums at once, even when i don’t like a song on it i’m drawn in by the vibe and atmosphere which yes is v shambolic that’s why it’s good

Y'see, I don't agree that it feels like listening to three albums at once either, even if you can hear hints of their future solo work (particularly Paul's, not so much George's) ... it sounds like a Beatles record, although an at times substandard one.

I'll never be convinced that the band set out to make a shambolic record, I think it just turned out that way. I do believe that they were big headed enough to think that everything they were writing was great, so just threw it all in there, and to ensure they could get a double album out that year, rushed the recordings. I think it was as simple at that.

you're getting too imaginative

how many times have you expressed this same opinion

Perish the thought. (xp)

husky-voiced emollient

oh you think you can turn my head with yr bon mots

turrican doesn’t read this board, he just posts here

― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, October 30, 2017 9:07 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Brad, if you're going to fantasise, at least go to town. Pretend you're writing about Zayn Malik and geodes again.

but why does a critic's weakness for the mythos affect your enjoyment?

I just get annoyed when people bring it up, and it happens *a lot* w the Mac. Generally (like you) I don't find conflating biography w music helpful or interesting when it comes to appreciating something

oh you think you can turn my head with yr bon mots

― Οὖτις, Monday, October 30, 2017

What do I have to do to make you love me?