Shania Twain's Ramones T-shirt: C/D?

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That picture is hottt. Classic!

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 12 November 2002 21:23 (twenty-three years ago)

I think Faith Hill looks nice.

jm, Tuesday, 12 November 2002 22:00 (twenty-three years ago)

If Brian Eno can record an album in Hamilton so could Momus. The eye patch would just be an assumed over eager Ti Cats fan injury.

true, true, if only we could keep him away from crazy deals (with appropriate backwards z) and buying a sparkly eye patch.

Momus: Why, this eye patch is fantastical, I shall busk my new song, in celebration *singing* 'My eyepatch is a penis...OOOoOOOOooOOOoOO....'

TiCat Fan: Faggot.....*punches Momus in the eye*

Momus: I am Marquis de sade and will come over your town in sweet revenge.

I still like the idea that the t-shirt was ripped up in a bar brawl in hamilton ....

doom-e, Wednesday, 13 November 2002 07:37 (twenty-three years ago)

Hold up - erase all my previous posts. I forgot, I LOVE IT when Sean gets cranky! I should be encouraging him. Boo Shania - you acid-wash Zellers brand wench you! Boo!

Kim (Kim), Thursday, 14 November 2002 02:56 (twenty-three years ago)

That picture is hottt. Classic!

You're a sick man, Sterling.

Dan's comment is far too evil to be allowed to live. I love it that much. :-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 November 2002 09:30 (twenty-three years ago)

gets cranky?

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 14 November 2002 14:21 (twenty-three years ago)

isn't the smokestack in sudbury the tallest in the world? they have a neutrino detecter there as well.

keith (keithmcl), Thursday, 14 November 2002 18:08 (twenty-three years ago)

They also have the largest nickel. But Timmins has jack.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 14 November 2002 18:15 (twenty-three years ago)

Let this thread be our standard, our pennant.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 November 2002 19:01 (twenty-three years ago)

Least none of us have been inquiring about her wooden leg.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 14 November 2002 19:05 (twenty-three years ago)

two months pass...
http://content.rollingstone.com/content/2875/Images/00316914.jpg

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 17 January 2003 02:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh yes she does.

http://www.lastplanetojakarta.com/shania.jpg

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Friday, 17 January 2003 03:35 (twenty-three years ago)

Now at last the truth comes out.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 17 January 2003 03:54 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.an-irrational-domain.net/images/jaz/jaz86scream.jpg

YOU DIE NOW, NED RAGGETT!!!!!

Jaz Coleman, Friday, 17 January 2003 04:10 (twenty-three years ago)

I'd bet everything I own that Shania wasn't a Ramones fan growing up, but its entirely possible that she discovered them later in life - either by herself, through her husband or other industry friends. Its reasonable to assume that musicians (in her case I use the term lightly) like a variety of music and probably look for stuff far removed from what they do. A good friend of mine is in a metal band and he's come to equate metal with work so when he's at home he barely listens to anything even close to metal sounding.

Its also equally possible that a wardrobe consultant said "Wear this, its cool." I suspect this might be true because of the location these adds appeared in...they were targeted to specific areas (in Toronto atleast) and weren't used (that I've seen) outside of the once punk rock now trendy yet fashionable Queen Street West area of town and at the various subway stops near U of T.

I seriously doubt that its an attempt to win over young Ramones fans, but it could appeal to an older person who stopped following music years ago...the shirt reminding them of their youth, while Shania presenting the 'now'. Its the kinda of thing that could sucker 35-40 year olds who stopped buying albums years ago into re-entering the music buying market. "Shania likes the Ramones? So did I when I was young...maybe I'll give her another listen." Let's face it, atleast 50% (minimum!) of her audience is made up of people who never would have considered buying a country album before she came out.

Wow, I've put way too much thought and effort into Shania and her shirt.

CretanBull (CretanBull), Friday, 17 January 2003 06:49 (twenty-three years ago)

welcome to ILM, CretanBull!

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 17 January 2003 07:52 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.an-irrational-domain.net/images/jaz/jaz140.JPG

I'LL HAVE YOUR HEAD FOR THIS, JOhn DARLELLE

Jaz Raving Mad Coleman (vassifer), Friday, 17 January 2003 08:18 (twenty-three years ago)

SHnia TwAin iz prrty

Bruce Urquhart (Bruce Urquhart), Friday, 17 January 2003 08:33 (twenty-three years ago)

welcome to ILM, CretanBull!

Why thank you :o) I kinda dove right in and haven't introduced myself yet....I think there's a thread for that!


CretanBull (CretanBull), Friday, 17 January 2003 16:13 (twenty-three years ago)

So Alex, that first picture -- that is Alice Cooper with a haircut, yes? ;-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 17 January 2003 16:31 (twenty-three years ago)

Is it too late for Shania to do "Fall of Because" mix of her new album where the choruses all suddenly become crunchy-guitar/tribal-drum throwdowns? let's hope not

J0hn Darn13ll3 (J0hn Darn13ll3), Friday, 17 January 2003 19:39 (twenty-three years ago)

You know, it's not like it's her Ramones shirt, just like Justin Timberland didn't really own that MC5 shirt he was wearing on the VIBE cover. Photo shoot fashion advisors are to blame.

Helltime Producto (Pavlik), Saturday, 18 January 2003 00:44 (twenty-three years ago)

what about that smut from atomic kitten and her velvet underground t shirt? (sorry if someone already mentioned it, but my attention span won't let me read an entire thread about shania twain's ramones t shirt)

di smith (lucylurex), Saturday, 18 January 2003 08:10 (twenty-three years ago)

http://images.mp3.com/rollingstone/content/2875/Images/00316884.jpg
..I have nothing against Shania as a pop singer, but why was she photographed at CBGB? What's the connection/relevance ?


dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 20 January 2003 13:29 (twenty-three years ago)

(although if I recall correctly someone else here once posted about Madonna wearing some heavy metal t-shirt...Motorhead, I think). See, I remember seeing one of the Indigo Girls wearing a Husker Du T back in the day and I didn't mind that at all.
Madonna wearing Motorhead == Calculated and deliberate.
Indigo Girls Wearing Husker Du == Completely acceptable. Some gut instinct tells me that the Indigo Girls actually DU listen to Husker Du, and they probably bought the T-shirt themselves with their own money when they went to a Husker Du concert.
Madonna/Twain, on the other hand, probably told one of her handlers to go out and find her a T-shirt that was "counter-intuitive"

Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Monday, 20 January 2003 15:38 (twenty-three years ago)

The basic stupidity on this endless thread is the assumption that people who make music can only like music similar to the stuff they make. If I made music it would probably end up as scratchy glitchy indie-tronica - that would not mean I liked Missy Elliot or Sugababes any less because they sounded nothing like that.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 January 2003 15:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, but what T-shirt would you wear to your Photo-ops!?

Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Monday, 20 January 2003 15:47 (twenty-three years ago)

An enormous potato sack.

People wear clothes to express themselves and send messages and maybe surprise people shockah!

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 January 2003 15:51 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think it's an issue of musicians only being able to like music similar to their own, Tom. Shania has admitted in interviews that she used to listen to a radio station growing up where they played country, pop and rock side by side, because the town was so small that they could only manage one radio station (or something like that). I know that kind of environment totally, because I grew up in a town just like that, where you'd hear Glen Campbell followed by, oh, Thin Lizzy. So there's no doubt in my mind that Shania's love of music other than what she started out (pretty standard country pop) is real.

I think my basic gripe here (and my position has been softened quite a bit since my initial reaction and post, because someone pointed out to me that Shania wearing a punk band's t-shirt pissing me off basically = punk, because punk is supposed to piss people off, right?) is that there's a real disconnection between Shania Twain and the Ramones, and that yes, it does seem hyper-calculated. That AC/DC shirt above I can definitely see with her small-town background (oh and the fact that her husband produced the album in question on the shirt). I have no problem with Shania liking things other than her own genre, but there's still something about this that smacks of image consultant or desperate cred-grabbing.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 20 January 2003 15:55 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah but Tom be that as it may (i.e. I don't expect a guy wearing a Black Flag T-shirt to necessarily have a mohawk, blow snot rockets at passers-by, etc) you know as well as everybody else that the likelihood of Shania/Madonna/name-yr-giant-pop-icon picking their own clothes for their photoshoot = very near zero, and discussing what photographers/designers are trying to convey by (for example) putting Shania in the dressing room of CBGG's = fair game, no?

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 20 January 2003 15:56 (twenty-three years ago)

I would love to be proven wrong, by the way, and have Shania tell us exactly how much she loves the Ramones. Shania to thread!

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 20 January 2003 15:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Yeah John I quite agree (actually not abt Madonna who I suspect exerts a LOT of control over what she wears) - my position isn't 'leave off Shania'* it's a complaint that the discussion about the messages etc is really one-dimensional, just based on "Shania can't like the Ramones!!". I think it's pretty inevitable that the iconography of New York punk would be latched onto by other people given that the scene has been treated with so much reverence over the years - the message being if you don't want people messing around with your memories, don't turn them into a tourist attraction.

*though there is a lot more interesting stuff to say about her than this - putting out 3 versions of the same album is both amazingly cynical and artistically significant in terms of a big mainstream artist demolishing the idea of the 'original version'.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 January 2003 16:02 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes Tom you are so right -- not to drag my music-self too much into this but it took several years for me to persuade people that I listen to heavy metal because I like heavy metal and as recently as Friday afternoon I was asked by an interviewer "So what's the fascination with heavy metal?" -- as if, since I play mainly acoustic guitar, it's a given that I'd wanna mainly listen to people playing stuff that I already know how to play and that sounds like stuff I'd be able to write myself

I think there are bigger questions about the culture of celebrity being raised with Shania and her Ramones T-shirt though -- a person who likes Shania might well enjoy the Ramones (or the Subhumans, which would have been a much savvier choice of T-shirt I must say) but in the rarefied air of unimaginable wealth like that enjoyed by Shania, doesn't it seem like the ability to process the data of the outside world gets compromised, or the nature of how it's done changes considerably? What I mean is: sure, Celine Dion could like any kind of music...but isn't it kind of difficult to imagine her listening to any kind of music at all?

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 20 January 2003 16:10 (twenty-three years ago)

I suspect if Celine Dion came out wearing a Subhumans or Ramones T-Shirt, the grey-haired old fogeys who listen to her music wouldn't even know who those shirts referred to.

Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Monday, 20 January 2003 16:14 (twenty-three years ago)

I suspect Frank Kogan knows exactly who they are.

I think probably the wealthier you are the bigger the chances of your enjoying *everything*, not nothing - whether you enjoy it in the same way or in more of a 'diverting novelty' sense I don't know, not being incredibly wealthy.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 January 2003 16:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Interesting theory, Tom. Lets both become fabulously and obscenely wealthy so we can see if it "changes" us.
To do this experiment right, you have to have handlers and image consultants. And I'll just hire a masseuse and butler. (I'm the control group, y'see.)

Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Monday, 20 January 2003 16:23 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not sure I agree with Tom's hypothesis; it would seem to me that more of the wealthier people I know tend to have far more restricted (read: refined) tastes, and tend to shut themselves off from a large chunk of *everything* because it doesn't fit into the lifestyle. If the theory was true, you'd be more likely to hear...oh, Danzig, whenever you went into a coffee shop in a wealthy neighborhood, instead of it always being Buena Vista Social Club or Enya.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 20 January 2003 16:30 (twenty-three years ago)

I think there's a distinction between the public face rich people/places present and what individual rich people might like or not like. Also I expect the percentage of rich people who don't care much about music at all anyway is the same as the percentage in every class, and public places like coffee shops cater to those.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 January 2003 16:36 (twenty-three years ago)

This is fascinating - but irrelevant.. just like Shania at CBGB. Sure, she has every right to be there & may in fact like Blondie enough to visit... but what does CBGB have to do with Shania Twain's music or image? What is the photographer trying to convey with that backdrop? It doesn't seem as if Shania or her fans would care about a dank dressing room - and non-fans wouldn't give the picture a second look.

dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 20 January 2003 17:02 (twenty-three years ago)

But if it doesnt matter then why does it matter to you Dave? It's just a location.

The photographer is trying to convey sleaziness - that nice Shania also has a dirrty side. It's not a very good picture so I wouldn't say it worked.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 January 2003 17:05 (twenty-three years ago)

It doesn't matter to me in that I'm offended.... I just don't get it.

dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 20 January 2003 17:07 (twenty-three years ago)

(that sentence has lousy grammar... sorry.)

dave225 (Dave225), Monday, 20 January 2003 17:07 (twenty-three years ago)

I think the fact that it's CBGBs is just a little Easter-Egg in-joke for people who recognise it (I didn't). It's the ambience that's the intended effect.

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 January 2003 17:12 (twenty-three years ago)

Guess which ILMer offered up:
"2002 seemed to be the year that punk seemed to lose all meaning. Worst of all, Shania Twain had the nerve to wear a Ramones T-shirt (strategically torn to draw attention to her breasts) in promotional photos for her new ultrapolished crapload of an album. It's hard to believe that she's ever listened to the Ramones for fun; more likely it's something she found in her dad's... er, I mean her husband's record collection."
Answer found here.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 20 January 2003 22:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Lordy! This thread certainly woke back up. Shit, I go away for a day or two and look at what I missed!

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 20 January 2003 23:11 (twenty-three years ago)

Ok fine, so it's all about advertising - promotion - all's fair, so long as it gets attention? This seems to be a common sentiment lately, and not just on ilm. The crux of the issue for me, and why I actually do sympathise with Sean's original postion on this thread (albeit deep down) is that it *does* seem to smack of manipulation rather than information. It's propaganda, essentially, and the idea of taking all such things at face value rather than asking questions or using the ol' critical eye - well, it feels a lot like giving in.

Kim (Kim), Monday, 20 January 2003 23:49 (twenty-three years ago)

I think what bugs me Kim is that I feel like I've been benevolently manipulated into liking the Ramones via iconography and marketing ever since I became aware of punk, so funneling a bit of that manipulation towards Shania doesn't seem like compounding the crime too much.

(Also in any marketing exercise designed to appeal to/create a demographic, answering a strong "no" is as useful to Them and Their profiling as answering a strong "yes".)

Tom (Groke), Monday, 20 January 2003 23:55 (twenty-three years ago)

And THIS is why I hate marketing! The fact that even if you fight - they win! Bastards! Uh... except for you Tom. Of course. Phew...

Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 00:04 (twenty-three years ago)

shania fan looks at t-shirt, thinks "hmm, i don't who that is, let's investigate", is somewhat non-plussed by what they hear, but persists bcz their heroine shania is after all wearing it, and gradually realises that HEY they like it, it's exciting and funny and [insert ramones qualities here], ok it;s not shania but it's good also, and maybe they shd look further

if one believes that ppl hearing heard the ramones would — for example — immediately begin to question their allegience to shania, then why complain when she gives the ramones a free endorsement? why is it so awful that outsiders and newbies find out about the ramones?

mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 00:06 (twenty-three years ago)

Ask not what Shania can do for the Ramones - ask what the Ramones can do for Shania.

Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 21 January 2003 00:09 (twenty-three years ago)


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