Music Criticism in Video Form

shiftless teens/20s guys who are unable to enjoy art without external validation from as much authority as possible have existed since long before RYM

yeah but they used to just get a copy of the rolling stone guide and then grow out of it

but it's more than that. it's a community of people who not only believe that 'objective' evaluation of art/music is possible and necessary, but who highly value such evaluation as a means of constructing the canon/tomorrow's received wisdom. they take to the next level what they've observed the music press doing (in slapping star-ratings onto music and periodically slotting it into ranked lists).

i think there are two forces at work here both largely taking impact from the technology of the internet itself. 1) the need to be an Expert on everything. this is a big internet thing, something that emerges in social spheres, perhaps it is a result of the aggressive/territorial propoganda of capitalisam, the hyper consumerism of post-modern late capitalism. the way we represent ourselves on the internet largely starts with lists, lists of favorite books/movies, lists of consumer products, there is an aggressive need to indulge in this and yeah the ages old traditions of consumerist promotional materials.

2) the methods of art production have been democratized. this is in some ways a bad thing for art. whereas in the past technology and skill cut the average person off from the ability to create, now technology makes it a convenience available to everyone. now people that in another era would have never attempted to make art are getting into "making art" via the hyper consumer route, it is a way to feed their consumer ego, their brand, etc. you see this in Pateron and the modern cult of personality. people on message boards talk about copyright strikes towards their favorite youtuber and say that they are making "art" by playing these video games that somebody else made.

i think in some ways this is good, that art should be available to everyone, but certainly it loses a craft, and you have essentially illiterate (from a traditional art-history educational background) people writing for other illiterate people about art. this is not art. this is criticism. just because you made a video does not mean it is film and it is art. a lot of this criticism is made by people that don't really care about art outside of a consumer sphere - they aren't artists themselves - so much as they care about movies and maybe the political drama surrounding it. not to say it is all bad of course and there are people doing great things (and i far prefer youtube over television) but the convenience of the technology and platform lower the bar to entry and allow a lot of shitty people in.

The internet puts people in touch with others who share their absolute worst tendencies. And it allows them to spend all their time with these people, in a cocoon of toxic reinforcement, and ignore outside influences. When they live this way for long enough the outside world comes to seem strange and alien, and they can only make sense of it with language they learned in the cocoon, i.e. prejudices and generalizations, the kind of thoughts that thrive in environments without light or oxygen. So the internet -- a technology that was supposed to help us feel connected to people all across the globe -- has actually turned out to be a remarkably efficient incubator of hardcore racists and ideological misogynists.

xp j. Basically you're right -- tendencies that were bad i. The past can become so much more damaging today.

good way to set up meets for swingers too

Sure, but if one of these romantic liasions disappoints the male party he just might spend the rest of his life whining about it on an MRA forum, to the point where sexism, along with bitterness, comes to be a core feature of his personality.

They need to warn people about getting sucked into online hate communities the way they used to warn people about getting drawn into cults.

I'm always curious what hair was split when an Adam bruneau ends up here instead of in the needle drop comments section

now deej

Impact!

Needle Drop shows cancelled after controversy https://t.co/4jrOJRBkxY pic.twitter.com/T9uE3P5wH1

— BrooklynVegan (@brooklynvegan) October 5, 2017

I'm a little surprised by this. Are the people that enjoyed his terrible music reviews really put off to learn he has other terrible videos as well?

I was barely aware of this guy for the longest time. I watched his reviews of my records, which he liked, but commented on strangely, and I felt odd about his analyses. I watched a couple other of his reviews and felt he had a profound inability to feel any empathy for any musician who he perceived as "the other"-- women, black musicians, queers, all kind of just were these aliens who made and said things that he wasn't able to directly relate to his own experience. The bodies and minds and art of "the other" were just accessories to his own experience. At a point when he was retweeted into my Twitter timeline one too many times, I blocked him and forgot about him.

About a year ago, a Twitter friend commented something about "a vegan Youtuber" and I replied, "the one bald one or the one with the fedora?" He said "the music reviewer" and I said "if he puts numbers on the art, then he supports the patriarchy and must be euthanized". I stand by the quantitative-analysis-of-art-favours-power-structures-already-in-place idea. "Euthanized"? Not a bad way to be put retired, but it was a lame joke.

Six months later, I guess Anthony found the tweet and made a big deal out of it. He screen-shotted it and made it his banner and @'d me a bunch, suggesting I was aligning myself with historical groups that support euthanasia-- Nazis, I guess. The feeling I felt was mostly bemusement at how little I cared, that this kind of internet trolling just didn't really affect my mental state, or make me feel threatened, and after about 30 minutes of concern I pretty much forgot about it and moved on.

This Fader article is interesting and seemed like a lot of work, and definitely caught me up on crypto-Nazi "edge lording" and what I guess has been going on on those other message boards I don't frequent any more. But, after it's publication, I couldn't help but also feel really weirded out by the torches-and-pitchforks-out response in the music and music journalism community. Tweets that seem harassing, telling Anthony to "choke on your own diarrhea", "die in a fire", etc., and really? Is this really what we want to spend time on? Is this really getting people that up-in-arms?

What I'm trying to say is that I can't help but feel that there is a creepy side effect of this whole affair, and (sure) the way that "social justice issues" enact themselves on social media as a whole. I feel as if the urge to shun anybody who has a really dumb explanation as to "why they don't say the n-word" manifests itself as like, a license to bully, a license to shit-post. It feels like Brooklyn Vegan comments sections all over again. I don't understand why people can't just block and move on; or, barring that, engage with the man directly and discreetly.

I think too that any aggressive response to this Fader article only increases the possibility of some kind of 'white straight male victimhood' complex and will just make things worse. I've gotten super aggro online about that rock band from Kent called Slaves, but I was like... flabbergasted and couldn't control my anger. Does this outrage actually solve anything? Can't we just wait until Anthony goes the way of Chris Ott? Ignore him until he's just a ghost, enjoying his binge-drinking and his beautiful family?

Are people really upset about the fact that Anthony does some crypro-blackface on a side-channel, enough to turn this into an internet firefight? How much more do I have to read about his black wife? or about how his side-channel was satirical? or that he's a Bernie supporter? Why can't people just block him and forget. Ian Cohen sucks, so I blocked him too; if Fader finds out that he's a secret pigfucker and he loses his Pitchfork job over it, I will feel sad for him but happy that music was his side-gig; he's a lawyer? I heard? good. He'll be fine. I wouldn't crow with glee that this music writer I don't like is a pigfucker. Why do I feel like "the resistance" is enacting patterns of abuse and online bullying for no reason except ragey-ragey-rage? Why do I think the response to this article is just making things stupider? Why am I even wasting time on this post?

I think too that any aggressive response to this Fader article only increases the possibility of some kind of 'white straight male victimhood' complex and will just make things worse.

this is totally otm, but i'm also torn w/r/t how funny it is when someone tells a vlogger to choke on his own diarrhea

Are people really upset about the fact that Anthony does some crypro-blackface on a side-channel, enough to turn this into an internet firefight?

"Upset" is strong but yes, for what I hope are obvious reasons I do care that this dude was making money off of shit toxic to my family's existence and I'm glad Youtube demonetized his garbage, removing his incentive for continuing it.

I mean, the bigger picture of your post fgti is that nothing matters anymore and, looking a month down the road, I'm guessing Fantano will be fine and the Fader will be fine and Slaves will change their name like Viet Cong or Eskimeaux or the Morning Benders and be fine

so in the meantime it's fun to repeatedly own a herb

fgti I love you and that post is both accurate and booming

>I think too that any aggressive response to this Fader article only increases the possibility of some kind of 'white straight male victimhood' complex and will just make things worse.

the examples cited in that Fader article that are still online & watchable in their entirety are clearly a lot more complex than what they're being made out to be in that article. especially as he gets more into the Meme Review & densely edited youtubepoop stuff. irony has evolved in some very tortured ways online over the last 10 years, so I have found myself growing more charitable about interpreting someone's intent with an online post or video than I ever used to have to be. kids are drawn to the unspeakable, and today we live online.

when I was 15 we had Book of the SubGenius & the Research Pranks issue, and Boyd Rice was the main cautionary tale of what happened when a troll went too far -- today's 15 year olds have Kekistan. I don't like it but I'd be lying if I said I didn't understand the appeal

I am fine with that channel being demonetized, especially as his reaction / rationale for then pulling his work is that there's no point for it to be up because he's no longer making any money from it. he's got some more work to do on what he believes & I hope he comes out of it. the most interesting bit of the interview with Akkad is the brief bit where they're both delirious over how they can live off their videos.

DJP oh no, totally, I'm not policing the response of direct victims of his hate speech, and I'm not trying to be anti-anger, or anti-violence, or even anti-cruelty, I fully want Barron to be the first to be hung, and by his feet, and for a long time, I'm just (in this case, and other cases previous) finding that the response across Twitter, by musicians and journalists who really ought not to give so many shits, is so... gleeful, weirdly over-aggressive, that it feels inauthentic. Like pageantry. Like an exaggeration of the "trauma" and "class oppression" that might be experienced if Fantano gave somebody's band a bad review, or no coverage at all. Like people railing against white supremacy online but calling the cops when the neighbours' kids make too much noise. Like people exploiting the cause and language of social justice in order to give themselves free rein to be a piece of shit online.

Ahh Milton that's v interesting btw

@ WGW, I kind of feel the opposite, I kind of think everything matters and that it's good to engage properly and directly with people and I don't see the fun in owning an herb

I don’t know why I hate theneedledrop guy so much. I agree with him more often than not but I just don’t like his face or something. I hate that I hate him for no reason too.

Nvm I just got caught up on the Auerbach/Sunderland thing, burn everything and everyone

otm

Sometimes things are exactly what they seem like.

Auerbach/Sunderland?

Enjoy, if that's the word

https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism?utm_term=.qvMAnp774#.ybVmxoWWG

there's one graf in there, I don't really want to point out which it is but it doesn't take much detective work, that very heavily suggests that the only reason we didn't have a music GG is because m*lo didn't bite

xxxps
Auerbach/Sutherland more likely?

fgti otm throughout. Participating in the alt right via dogwhistle youtube videos and whatever is inexcusable given the toxicity of these communities and the harm they cause -- it's good his videos were demonetized -- but I don't think it's a good idea to fight these people by borrowing their tactics, from meme wars to abuse language to whatever.

when I was 15 we had Book of the SubGenius & the Research Pranks issue, and Boyd Rice was the main cautionary tale of what happened when a troll went too far -- today's 15 year olds have Kekistan. I don't like it but I'd be lying if I said I didn't understand the appeal

this aint a meme kid he's a fully grown ass married bald matt pinfield-esque man.

*abusive.

People need to do what they need to do but they should be aware that the alt right/gamergate communities are incredibly vile, and that they thrive on twitter flame wars etc. That's milo's whole deal, right? Baiting people.

Fgti great post!

Think you might want to read the rest of the thread after that post now.

Fgti I don't think you realize the tenacity of the brainwashed Fantano teens who attack anyone's mentions who might have a critical word to say about him. If there's a ferocity to my response it's bc of the brick wall like expeirence of entering into a "reasonable dialogue" with an ostensible "critic" like Anthony fantano, who is more of a cult of personality persona emulating the authority and knowledge of "critics" through theatrical performance than he is someone interested in any kind of intellectual inquiry. He's also, I think, far more accepting of reactionary bullshit than his followers realize, stuck as they are in a bubble where Richard Spencer's opinions are normalized. He might be a "liberal" but it's fruit of the poisoned tree

also the reason people seem gleeful is because the alternative is being terrified

Tweets that seem harassing, telling Anthony to "choke on your own diarrhea", "die in a fire", etc., and really? Is this really what we want to spend time on?

how many Needle Drop videos would we have to submit fgti to until he answers this in the affirmative? i'm thinking 2

Just wanna point out that I was clowning Broadly Pepe more than two years ago

Already dying at Vice's attempt at a women's vertical. pic.twitter.com/LT6yu5PLeE

— Chris Weingarten (@1000TimesYes) August 6, 2015

I couldn't help but also feel really weirded out by the torches-and-pitchforks-out response in the music and music journalism community. Tweets that seem harassing, telling Anthony to "choke on your own diarrhea", "die in a fire", etc., and really? Is this really what we want to spend time on? Is this really getting people that up-in-arms?

i agree with a lot of what you're saying but you're literally just talking about........ twitter

in response to any news breaking ever, there will immediately be 100 million randos telling someone to eat diarrhea and each of their posts will have zero to 3 likes

the argument is basically a gussied-up version of "liberals are actually just virtue-signaling"

lol flopson

and yes katherine I hadn't heard that term before but I think you're exactly right, and it's why I'm fearful of this line of thought

I fear that a handful of Twitter causes this year have caused me doubts about the authenticity of this 'progressive' fight or that-- i.e. people pointing out the TERFiness of pussy hats made me wonder if that angle was actually in good faith, wondering if there was any net benefit for trans women to make that argument, or if it was (actually!) a line of thought planted by the alt-right that sought to destabilize the effectiveness of the women's march by creating division

I don't actually think that but my brain has been reading everything as double-speak this past year

Anyway if you need me I'm going back to my comfortable solution-box of "hire more black writers"

but it's more than that. it's a community of people who not only believe that 'objective' evaluation of art/music is possible and necessary, but who highly value such evaluation as a means of constructing the canon/tomorrow's received wisdom. they take to the next level what they've observed the music press doing (in slapping star-ratings onto music and periodically slotting it into ranked lists). the music press has largely been rockist for decades, and i don't think i need to explain the implicit values and biases of rockism here. unsurprisingly, rym's collective rankings (the building versions of which seem to be how a lot of music gets on some devoted users' radars in the first place) are heavily skewed in all the predictable directions.

so yeah, not at all surprising when a fantanbro is a heavy rym user! (he was btw + might still be but i haven't cared enough to check recently)

― dyl

is it? where is it? all i see are stupid kids who won't shut up about how mr. bungle is the greatest band ever and people who make long lists of records in languages they can't read.

my impression is that rym as a "culture" is stagnant and being eclipsed by the capitalist juggernaut that is discogs.

xp i mean alt-right attempts at social media false flags are always obvious because they make no attempt at making it believable to anyone who isn't alt-right. meanwhile ending the equations between gender and genitalia has been pretty central to trans activism for a long time? and this was one of the biggest marches in recent memory, why wouldn't it come up?

i still don't get why "a bunch of random dillweeds wanna come along for the ride" is a reason against publishing an article about anthony fantano courting reactionaries. or are you just against the behavior of randoms?

the awkward lesson of mass social media i keep learning is that the amount of human beings currently alive is incomprehensible and terrifying and most of them really just wanna come along for the ride

Actually most of them just want to find parking, if I correctly remember my cabaret voltaire

xp to rushomancy tbh what i wrote probably better describes denizens of acclaimedmusic and such, altho there's substantial overlap

I stand by the quantitative-analysis-of-art-favours-power-structures-already-in-place idea.

does anyone remember the link to the rather-good article about this topic? maybe an ilxor wrote it?

drew daniel's quietus baker's dozen?

that was it!! thank you :)

my impression is that rym as a "culture" is stagnant and being eclipsed by the capitalist juggernaut that is discogs.

Not to derail but I don't think Discogs even tries to offer much to supplant that tendency to want to rate and review. You can do both but they are barely developed features. Charts hardly figure. Even the specialist groups are very low on traffic for the most part.

Maybe that's what you meant but I don't see this dynamic. Also it's pretty small beans as a 'juggernaut' really.