• Why would he feel so uncomfortable wearing a suit and tie when he's one of the few rock star guys who regularly wears one onstage?
• I nominate this one as the Ronnie Spector song of this album.
• Good Lord, the Grammys have always sucked, haven't they? Though Pink Floyd walking into a room with Sinatra and Streisand and only ... Christopher Cross comes walking out, man, that's a scene right there.
https://i.imgur.com/j0hKNtV.jpg
But ain't that America, home of the free. Little Glass Houses for you and me.
― pplains, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 14:14 (seven years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/l9yQDCf.jpg
Miss D. Boon every day.
― pplains, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 14:15 (seven years ago) link
D. Sutherland more like, from the teeth and the glint in his eyes
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 14:43 (seven years ago) link
i love that every single one of these billy joel youtubes features the comment "this is my favorite song from my favorite billy joel album"
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 15:11 (seven years ago) link
i like the song a lot though. delivery v elvis costello
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 15:20 (seven years ago) link
like a blender smoothie of Blinded By The Light & Hold The Line & Video Killed The Radio Star
"all for leyna" vs. "hold the line" vs. "jane" vs. "fantasy" vs. "blinded by the light" vs. half the buggles catalog would be another good thread that's maybe already been done.
― fact checking cuz, Monday, September 25, 2017 10:53 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
"fantasy" by aldo nova, "runaway" by bon jovi
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 15:38 (seven years ago) link
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, September 26, 2017 10:20 AM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah this is really "My Aim is True" era Elvis C
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 15:40 (seven years ago) link
AH'M AVOIDIN' ALL THE HARD COLD FACTS I GOTTA FACE
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 15:41 (seven years ago) link
this really does sound like My Aim is True-era EC, which makes sense as most of the old guard (Nicks, Buckingham, Simon) were obsessed with him 1979-1979.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 15:42 (seven years ago) link
that's a very specific range, Alfred
― stop the mandolinsanity (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 15:45 (seven years ago) link
you bet!
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 15:46 (seven years ago) link
ugh All for Leyna is just terrible, sorry. Aside from the lyrical sentiment the gratingly punchy stiffness of it is really unpleasant, this rigid 4/4 grid pattern that alternates between half-time and double-time that never swings or moves at all, it's like some archetypal "white guys have no rhythm" joke.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 15:52 (seven years ago) link
I Don't Want to Be Alone is def in the EC school, as noted, doesn't really do anything interesting with it though
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 15:54 (seven years ago) link
So wait, did he successfully avoid them, or does he in fact gotta face them?
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 16:05 (seven years ago) link
maybe it's two separate phrases
"I"m avoiding all the hard cold facts / I've got a face"
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 16:13 (seven years ago) link
He has to face them but he's not doing so. Works for me. I just have no idea what the plot is - from stanza to stanza it feels like a totally different situation is being described, a failing that's cropped up earlier in songs like "My Life," that at least get by on catchiness and a sense of shared attitude among the pieces.
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 16:31 (seven years ago) link
yeah he is consistently a sloppy and careless lyricist
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 16:34 (seven years ago) link
Ehhh I don't know about that - more like there are songs he put in that extra time on, and songs where he sort of went with the first draft, or different chunks written at different moments without him making a final decision "okay the song's about THIS so i do need to rewrite that other part from when I thought it was about THAT."
On the other hand, he does tell an anecdote about how "It's Still Rock And Roll To Me" - I'm 90% sure that's the song in question - had no final lyrics until the day of recording, and he was scribbling it all down in the back seat of a car with Liberty, heading in to the studio from Long Island. And that one I think actually is very much on-topic, whatever other quibbles one might have.
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 16:40 (seven years ago) link
I nominate this one as the Ronnie Spector song of this album
absolutely. he makes it rather explicit during the fadeout. ohh-ohh ohh-ohh ohhh-ooh-ohhooh.
i see the elvis costello thing, too, but this song just seems so ... minor. and not quite of a piece with the rest of the album. a weird choice for side 2 track 1, especially considering the options that lay ahead.
also, he sounds like he had a cold when he did the vocal. if there's a less sexy way to deliver "ooh it's so erotic having you tell me how it should feel," i can't imagine what it would be.
― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 16:41 (seven years ago) link
I get that I'm a bit more lyrics-fixated than the average listener but there's just too many clunkers and shitty POVs in his lyrics for me to really rate him, and this listening exercise has only clarified that for me, whether it's the clumsy character details in Piano Man or the casual misogyny (so many to choose from!) or the half-assed attempts at Dylan, Fagen or Costello, the guy rarely delivered anything that comes across as self-assured and fully formed. His best pieces seem to consistently be (like "It's Still Rock and Roll to Me") tossed off, snotty pastiches that get by by virtue of clever melodic phrasing and delivery, and not so much on interesting details or depth or mise-en-scene or juxtapositions or ambiguity.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 16:54 (seven years ago) link
maybe "self-assured" is the wrong word there (he's got plenty of righteous-anger-by-way-of-crippling-inferiority-complex thing going on), just that he never seems to hit on a lyrical approach that really has a solid foundation, a clearly thought out style, a voice, he's too busy second-guessing himself.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 16:57 (seven years ago) link
and when he does seem to be at his most uniquely Billy-Joelian heartfelt and honest (whatever those things mean in the context of 70s singer-songwriter-dom) the sentiments that do come to the fore are invariably creepy and off-putting (Always a Woman, You May Be Right)
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 17:03 (seven years ago) link
(please note I am not arguing that Billy needed to be more "authentic" or whatever, just that when he chose to adopt that as a songwriting strategy it inevitably came out gross - whereas his other strategies - going for a Bruce or Dylan homage, for example - just come off forced and inadequate)
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 17:04 (seven years ago) link
i agree with so much of what you're saying and yet, I like him! Gotta think on this some more, 'cause these are faults that I would find really glaring in some other writers.
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 17:11 (seven years ago) link
I consider myself more than adequately familiar with the creative output of Declan Patrick Aloysius Macmanus. The vocal delivery of "I Don't Want To Be Alone" certainly has similarities to MAIT-era Elvis, but the underlying music is... sloppier? More American? Funkier? I'm not sure how to describe it.
― stop the mandolinsanity (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 17:53 (seven years ago) link
rarely delivered anything that comes across as self-assured and fully formed. His best pieces seem to consistently be (like "It's Still Rock and Roll to Me") tossed off, snotty pastiches that get by by virtue of clever melodic phrasing and delivery
Well, yeah. My take is that he gets to a point with a given lyric where he says "this is good enough for a single" and figures it will do fine in the marketplace. And it generally DOES do fine in the marketplace. Partly because of his general bravado, but partly because his mad skillz as a melodist, musician, and all-round hitmaker are pretty solid.
Put it this way: if your third draft usually gets you into Casey's top 40, what incentive do you have to write a fourth draft?
― stop the mandolinsanity (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 17:59 (seven years ago) link
i think it's also that billy, more than many or most of his peers, is a pure music-first guy. he strikes me as the kind of composer who, having finished a piece of music, doesn't ask himself "what do i want to say?" but rather "what do i have to do to finish this thing?" i think a lot of, ahem, honesty will come out that way, 'cause if you're just throwing words out into the air to make them fit a melody or to finish an exercise, chances are pretty good they're going to carry some of your inner being along with them. with billy, that means a lot of insecurity, anger, bitterness, paranoia and random memories and nostalgia. but it's passive messaging. he's not trying to express ideas so much as they just kind of tumble out as he searches for serviceable rhymes and turns of phrases.
― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 20:27 (seven years ago) link
otm
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 20:31 (seven years ago) link
yeah that sounds about right
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 20:34 (seven years ago) link
Brilly Joel school of songwriting
― Eazy, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 20:39 (seven years ago) link
https://frinkiac.com/img/S04E12/740539/medium.jpg
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 20:41 (seven years ago) link
Popped into my local record shop and they've got two copies of this album in the new-arrivals bin, right next to each other! It's in the collective unconscious.
― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 00:14 (seven years ago) link
I think Billy favors the sound of words over the meaning - in the interviews that DC has posted, he said he usually comes up with the lyrics last. Obviously he's not going as far as Eno, but he's really good at choosing words that are memorable and fit his rhyme scheme, at the expense of a stupid line and mixed message here and there
basically fcc otm
― Vinnie, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 01:08 (seven years ago) link
However, he doesn't strike me as a lazy songwriter, even lyrically. I just think his priorities are more skewed towards sounding good than meaning good. Stupid lines are often among the most memorable in a song anyhow
― Vinnie, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 01:10 (seven years ago) link
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 01:32 (seven years ago) link
Stupid lines are often among the most memorable in a song anyhow
ha. and true. see also: billy's old tourmate elton john.
― fact checking cuz, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 03:37 (seven years ago) link
And Neil Diamond.
― Eazy, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 04:18 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7lpvVf2rCY
Sleeping With The Television On is one of my very favorite Joel deep cuts and has been stuck in my head almost every day since we started this album. Though another step into Costello/Jackson territory, it also arrives at something very much like peak-period Hall & Oates, which is more than okay by me. Whether he knew the Dictators' Sleepin' With the TV On, I cannot guess.
― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 13:00 (seven years ago) link
the only album track Christgau liked!
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 13:01 (seven years ago) link
except for the rinky-dink organ it works though
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 13:04 (seven years ago) link
"Tomorrow morning, you'll wake up to the white noise." <--- one of my favorite WMJ lines. Just how he ends the verse with it.
Have we used up all the sound effect intros on this album yet? Glass breaking, touch-tone telephone, Star-Spangled Banner... Roger Waters must've been sitting next to his speakers, tapping his front teeth with a biro, going "Hmm. This guy's good."
And what are we going to use when we record our cover? The sound of the OnDemand menu blaring about La La Land available now! in the New Movies section?
Keyboard solo definitely EC. But it's all pretty tight. Liberty DeVitto should've been pretty happy with the way this one turned out.
― pplains, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 13:12 (seven years ago) link
For real my favorite or second-favorite track on this album. This veers straight into power-pop territory -- replace all the keyboards with guitars and I could imagine this being a track from Cheap Trick or the Real Kids. And he knows exactly what the song needs, too, with the major verses/choruses and relative minor bridges. It's right out of the Beatles handbook.
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 13:13 (seven years ago) link
One of the best drum parts evah. I love the stab guitar and the sideways open-hat stuff (like under "just for the night ^ boys ^ ^"). One definitely hears Costello and Jackson.
― stop the mandolinsanity (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 13:23 (seven years ago) link
otm on drumming and stab guitar
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 13:24 (seven years ago) link
key hook for me is the way billy's lyric saves most of its syllables until it's going over the "all night long" backing vox, it's like sleater-kinney's intertwined guitar lines or something. obv this is also where liberty really shines with those high-speed fills.
― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 13:37 (seven years ago) link
What a jam - this might beat out "All for Leyna" for best new find. I love songs that are so efficient - intro, verses, choruses, TWO iterations of the bridge, solo, outro - there's a lot packed into 3:05! "Locked Out of Heaven" basically uses the same intro as this song, and it was a good steal on Bruno's part
― Vinnie, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:18 (seven years ago) link
I feel like this is just the right AMOUNT of the Star-Spangled Banner too -- starting on the "and" creates this tension that's not really resolved until Billy starts singing.
I loved this when this album came out and I don't think I knew what powerpop WAS then. Now I get it and agree he's going for that.
Damn I love the way he delivers "It just might be somebody else's same old line" on the second go-round. When he's literally repeating a line! In fact it's more like "It j-just" -- never noticed he STAMMERS that line the second time!
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:23 (seven years ago) link
I really never realized how MUCH of Joel's shtick is writing songs that sound like love songs but are actually about how much of a hopeless schnook he is and how he hates himself, with the woman's role less as love object and more as living proof.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:26 (seven years ago) link
OK but not to keep hammering on this theme of cross-referencing Joel with Joe Jackson, but compare "Sleeping with The Television On" with "Is She Really Going Out WIth Him?" Again, the Jackson song is way way better, sorry, Billy, but is also more sour than mean. In Joel there's a sense that the woman MIGHT want to talk to you if only you had more guts and weren't sitting home alone and scared. For Jackson, there's really no point, no reason to encourage his narrator to "Tell Her About It" -- the woman is always gonna go off with the asshole anyway. When Jackson says "I can't seem to say or do the right thing" he means something is wrong with the OTHER person -- when Joel can't come up with words that aren't "somebody else's same old line," he's sincerely criticizing himself.
I kind of want to bring Fountains of Wayne "Leave the Biker" into this but I've got to go to a meeting.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:31 (seven years ago) link
There's a clip where he calls "I really wish I was less of a thinking man, and more a fool who's not afraid of rejection" the "key line" of the song. It's telling, I think, that it's a line concerning the speaker rather than Diane. This is one where I think he's *aware* of how the woman in the song, her supposed loneliness and sad TV-sleeping fate, are less a real person dancing at the club and more a projection in the mind of the man. Definite shades of Jackson in that approach, and more interesting than the superficially similar "I'll tell you how into it she really is" approach on "You May Be Right." I hear the comparison to "Is She Really Going Out With Him?" but idk, they're different stories, capturing slightly different moments/feelings/characters.
― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 14:39 (seven years ago) link