TOTO "africa" classic or dud

Men at Work rule

The common take is that Men At Work benefitted from the Police taking too long in the studio, due to a few superficial similarities, but yeah, that first album at least is pretty strong.

anecdotally, i heard "africa" at the roller rink when i was a kid, but i never gave a shit about it until vice city came out. i'm 41. and i didn't actually ever _play_ vice city.

Case closed. Blame "Vice City."

africa by toto is a meme

i definitely became more "interested" in toto once i learned they were studio whizzes who played on steely dan recs... as a youngster i just grouped them with stuff like air supply, didn't know they were the ones who did that awesome 'love isn't always on time' song

and i definitely grew to enjoy the production of "africa" and the huge, brilliant chorus

See - and I know at least on paper they are of a totally different class - but I always grouped them not with Air Supply and the like, but REO Speedwagon and bands like that.

I think only Jeff Porcaro played with Steely Dan. The rest of them were your otherwise ubiquitous studio hacks who handled everything from yacht rock to top 40. I'll give them this, though, "Human Nature" is a sophisticated little track.

BTW, I just learned than one of Toto's former and now, again, current singers is the son of John Williams.

If you're looking for an explanation of "Africa"'s surge in appeal among Millennials, don't underestimate the i-VI-III-VII progression of the chorus. For better and for worse, hat progression and its inverse (I-V-vi-III, which "Don't Stop Believing" is built around) have become to 00's pop what the 12-bar blues and the doo-wop progression were to the 1950s and 60s. Those two progressions were relatively uncommon in the early 80s, but you started to hear them a lot more when alt-rock and pop-punk went major in the 90s. Since the heyday of Blink-182 they've been fucking inescapable. But they're a pop lingua franca, so older songs that use them probably slot a lot more comfortably into contemporary medleys and playlists.

Inspired by UMS's praise, we watched the Colin Hay documentary this evening -- and it is indeed very good. Highly recommended to all.

All classic songs are cathartic and capture a sensation or feeling or moment in time or what have you... I don't know what this song captures... the lyrics are fucking dumb and obviously written by someone who doesn't know much about Africa so I'm inclined to think this song is not about africa but about the idea of it... this song is about wanderlust isnt it?

It's the catchy musical elements of the track that make this song great - the opening keyboard hook which repeats in the verses, the beauty of the vocal melody in the verses followed by the passion and longing of the vocal melody in the chorus (especially when married to that chord progression) and it's all impeccably played and performed.

Sometimes it's less what a track spells out, and more what a track suggests that is the appeal.

My theory is that it's a good song and ppl like it

― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, September 19, 2017 5:24 AM

otm

My re-entry point came with the Late Nite Tuff Guy edit, which re-surfaced last year. I had a few weeks of being obsessed with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDwI0DTqD_A

never underestimate people's love for "randomness" and absurdity. for me there's a sort of tension between the lyrics and the music that elevates the song, even beyond the sort of nameless melancholy evoked by both the music and the lyrics. the impressive feat of "africa" is that it manages to get lyrics so poor to sound so good. indeed the lyrics almost function like dissonance does, something to be resolved by the music. that tension is what makes it relistenable without launching a massive "enough of this shit already" backlash.

See, I can't get past the lyrics. I have no real problem with the music (save the synth-sax solo), but the lyrics to me just suck.

Rushomancy otmfm

I will concede a glass-half-empty stance, but if the lyrics weren't so clunky and dumb this song could have been great. Or, yeah, "In Your Eyes" 1.0.

I really appreciate the aforementioned deep dive into the chord progression, I think there is really something to that.

Can I quibble, though? Pretty sure "Don't Stop Believin'" is I-V-vi-IV (not I-V-vi-III as thewufs wrote).

don't underestimate the i-VI-III-VII progression of the chorus. For better and for worse, hat progression and its inverse (I-V-vi-III, which "Don't Stop Believing" is built around)

It's I-V-vi-IV that is "Let it Be" and "No Woman No Cry" and "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" and on and on. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%E2%80%93V%E2%80%93vi%E2%80%93IV_progression

never underestimate people's love for "randomness" and absurdity. for me there's a sort of tension between the lyrics and the music that elevates the song, even beyond the sort of nameless melancholy evoked by both the music and the lyrics. the impressive feat of "africa" is that it manages to get lyrics so poor to sound so good. indeed the lyrics almost function like dissonance does, something to be resolved by the music. that tension is what makes it relistenable without launching a massive "enough of this shit already" backlash.

― bob lefse (rushomancy), Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:36 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah also, after the goofiest of all the song's goofiest lines "As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti" it hits you with this existential dread:

"I seek to cure what's deep inside/frightened of this thing that I've become"

^^^ yeah that line is kinda BOC actually

Yeah sorry the last chord on "Don't Stop Believin'" is IV.

The existential dread line is ruined when he explained it:

Paich told SongFacts.com,

That was me using a lot of writer’s license. I remember seeing lots of films of starving and famine when I was a kid in pictures of Africa. Then I’d seen some movies and read a lot of the National Geographics, and always wanted to go to Africa, so I romanticized this story about a social worker that goes over there and falls in love with working with the country and doing good.

But he also falls in love and has to make a choice between helping people for the rest of his life or having a family and doing that kind of thing."

The fourth chord in the progression, I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwNGR792Ifk

good lord

'we wanted flying cars, instead we got pitch-shifted toto'

-- bob marley

Can I quibble, though? Pretty sure "Don't Stop Believin'" is I-V-vi-IV (not I-V-vi-III as thewufs wrote).

The third chord alternates between vi and iii every other line, maybe that's what he meant?

'we wanted flying cars, instead we got pitch-shifted toto'

-- bob marley

― mookieproof, Wednesday, September 20, 2017 5:03 PM (forty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

LOL!

"I seek to cure what's deep inside/frightened of this thing that I've become"

I ruined these lines for myself a while back by singing "I seek to cure what's been pan-fried / frightened of this thing that I bacon". In hindsight it totally makes no sense, but if you wanted to do some targeted marketing of porkstuffs to 20-something necrovores, well you could do worse.

The third chord alternates between vi and iii every other line, maybe that's what he meant?

As I mentioned it was just a mistake, but yeah, I know that. It's a nice little twist, though I'll bet your average shitty bar band doesn't even know it's there, at least not without a fakebook. Still, I never want to hear "Don't Stop Believing" again in my entire life. Despite the horseshit exoticism and godawful lyrics, I won't get sick of "Africa" for a while to come - musically it's just a more interesting song, but also it hasn't even approached "Don't Stop Believing" levels of saturation yet. I swear, around the Boston area that song was already overplayed before the Sopranos finale even came out.

structure of Africa is also more rewarding, verse creates tension resolved in (somewhat) cathartic chorus

Don't Stop Believin' has an all time verse that the chorus doesn't come close to delivering upon

I bless the rains down in #Nambia

— Brian Gillespie (@BrianKGillespie) September 20, 2017

never underestimate people's love for "randomness" and absurdity. for me there's a sort of tension between the lyrics and the music that elevates the song, even beyond the sort of nameless melancholy evoked by both the music and the lyrics. the impressive feat of "africa" is that it manages to get lyrics so poor to sound so good. indeed the lyrics almost function like dissonance does, something to be resolved by the music. that tension is what makes it relistenable without launching a massive "enough of this shit already" backlash.

― bob lefse (rushomancy), Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:36 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah also, after the goofiest of all the song's goofiest lines "As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti" it hits you with this existential dread:

"I seek to cure what's deep inside/frightened of this thing that I've become"

― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 15:18 (yesterday) Permalink

Good posts! I had a similar thought about Ventura Highway recently, another song my dad band is covering. It's the slight amateurish awkwardness of the lyrics that make them work -- the sense of a college freshman trying really hard in a poetry workshop instead of a pro songwriter that gives them some life, lead to unusual phrasings that give the song some of its rhythmic interest etc.

I know-oo-wo-oo-wo-oo-wo

it'd just be cool if virtually every single "rediscovered" meme song, with the possible exception of "total eclipse of the heart," were not by the absolute dude-est of dudes. meet the new suffocating canon, same as the old suffocating canon

[instrumental break]

— africa by toto bot (@africabytotobot) September 21, 2017

xp I'm willing to put in the work to make the Go-Go's "Head Over Heels" happen

Well there's "Girls Just Want to Have Fun", which has 441 Million views on YouTube, but I don't think that one is meme related. It's probably just legitimately popular and timeless.

so Girls Just Want to Have Fun = legitimately popular and timeless

and Africa = not legitimately popular and timeless

got it

the difference seems pretty obvious to me. there wouldn't, for instance, be a cyndi lauper twitter bot

to be clear, i adore cyndi lauper. but what does a twitter bot have to do with this?

my only real point is a song becomes a meme because it is popular, and it is popular because it has good qualities that make it so.

i think it's bullshit to discredit Toto for having a song that's more popular than ever 35 years after they wrote and released it, no matter the reasons. they put together words and melodies and instrumental parts and rhythms that have not only endured, they've grown in popularity and stature. let them have a little credit, rather than saying "this song is only popular because it was in a video game." well guess what - someone chose that song for that video game because they like it and they knew it would resonate with people! barflies sing "Closing Time" because it's catchy and gives them a warm feeling! Red Sox fans sing "Sweet Caroline" because it's got an unbeatable hook!

every artist would kill to have one of these songs that's mega-popular and enduring ... but not reeeeally, says ILM.

ok now i am defending Toto onfuckingline before noon, what happened, where did it all go wrong

^frightened of this thing he has become

legit lol

people make twitter bots of memes, that's the whole point of them. it's not discrediting a song to point out a major source of its popularity

Yeah, I'm confused that so many people on here are simply against the idea that "Africa" has had a meme-ified boost lately.

what was the meme?