Watched part of this really crappy cheap-o Amazon Prime Tool documentary last night
https://www.amazon.com/Tool-Ultimate-Review-MVD/dp/B003D0BZQC
anyway, super low budget, obv nobody talked to them except these LA scenester dudes
but anyway big thing I didn't know was that Tool grew out of Green Jelly???
it actually makes a weird kind of sense
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 7 September 2017 18:17 (six years ago) link
some serious accusations against Maynard
Deep breath. I have to anonymously tell this story because I tried to tell it from my real account and couldn't name him directly out of fear, so I deleted the tweets. Here goes: I was 17 and he was 36. 1/— Iwas17HeWas36 (@IWas17HeWas36) June 23, 2018
― kurt schwitterz, Monday, 25 June 2018 22:42 (five years ago) link
"Later on, I heard from a male friend that he did this in every city, at every show."
Horrifying.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 25 June 2018 22:45 (five years ago) link
I posted about this on rolling metal but probably best to discuss here - couldn't bump it on Flagging
― Simon H., Monday, 25 June 2018 23:27 (five years ago) link
I actually got in an argument with someone re: groupies or alleged-groupies in the MeToo era, and she for some reason differentiated them from the abuses of power in the news. I think her argument was that groupies aren't being taken advantage in the same way because they have nothing to gain, nothing professional at stake. And I said that's bullshit, because it's still a matter of men using their power to take advantage of girls and women, however "consensual" it may appear in the abstract.
Anyway, this does not sound remotely consensual, and sounds as horrifying as it seems entirely plausible.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 25 June 2018 23:40 (five years ago) link
Sadly related, but I just went back and brushed up on the allegations made about Isaac Brock and Conor Oberst and, though the allegations were eventually dropped/recanted in both cases, I wonder if things would be different in 2018 vs. 1999 and 2014 respectively.
― Johnny Fever, Monday, 25 June 2018 23:51 (five years ago) link
What do you think would have happened differently, based on how those cases played out?
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Monday, 25 June 2018 23:55 (five years ago) link
(I don’t recall many specifics of either case, which is why I ask)
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Monday, 25 June 2018 23:56 (five years ago) link
I just wonder if the onus would have shifted to Brock and Oberst to prove concretely that the incidents did not happen (or happen the way they were portrayed) instead of just the general assumption by fans/etc from day one that the allegations were false (especially Brock's allegations in 1999, which now is almost 20 years ago).
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 00:05 (five years ago) link
The oberst one was a rare case that iirc was more or less debunked
― Simon H., Tuesday, 26 June 2018 00:09 (five years ago) link
Brock's a little hazier, not a lot of specifics I've seen
― Simon H., Tuesday, 26 June 2018 00:10 (five years ago) link
Based on what little information has survived about the Brock story, it resembles the Aziz Ansari story from a few months ago, but taken further.
― Johnny Fever, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 00:21 (five years ago) link
The onus was on Oberst, wasn't it? And it was totally debunked, iirc, and also fucked him up for a couple of years, and forever ties him to the allegation. But yeah, that sort of revelation is a rarity. Brock, yeah, I'm not even sure what happened there, what the ultimate outcome was. He talks about it here:
https://www.avclub.com/modest-mouse-1798208359#
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 00:24 (five years ago) link
It affected both of them a fair deal when it happened & would destroy their careers today
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 01:04 (five years ago) link
Whether or not they were innocent
The good news is that Tool fans will now have a whole new way to be the fucking worst.
― grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 01:37 (five years ago) link
Allegations against Paul Weller and Mick Hucknall were treated like PR blips at the time and are largely forgotten
― PaulTMA, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 09:26 (five years ago) link
Legit media doesn't seem to be picking up on this yet.
― how's life, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 14:22 (five years ago) link
Still a relatively now number of RTs - notably, for whatever reason, she neglected to use the MeToo hashtag, which probably would have made it a bigger deal faster.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 26 June 2018 14:23 (five years ago) link
yea I'm kinda surprised this hasn't picked up but I assume later today it probably will
― frogbs, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 15:50 (five years ago) link
The fact that it is anonymous may limit the degree to which it is reported.
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 15:57 (five years ago) link
...But it may lead to others coming forward with similar stories (like the one on Reddit).
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 16:05 (five years ago) link
David letterman seems to have got away with this bullshit pretty good
― mind how you go (Ross), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 16:10 (five years ago) link
?
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 16:18 (five years ago) link
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.pastemagazine.com/articles/2018/01/why-does-david-letterman-get-a-pass-despite-past-s.html
― mind how you go (Ross), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 16:19 (five years ago) link
In re to earlier discussion itt
― mind how you go (Ross), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 16:20 (five years ago) link
You know - David Lettercomebackstagewithoutherboyfriendman.
― how's life, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 16:20 (five years ago) link
I'm not really surprised this hasn't picked up, if only because it almost definitely happens with many, MANY musicians
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 16:27 (five years ago) link
a lot of these stories about musicians were getting picked up for a while
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 17:06 (five years ago) link
true, but they are almost certainly a fraction, and not a large one. musicians targeting underage women as groupies didn't die out in the '70s, not by a long shot.
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 17:44 (five years ago) link
katherie otm
― mind how you go (Ross), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 17:48 (five years ago) link
katherine *
absolutely. just surprised this has flown under the radar so far. I can't imagine it would've gone this way if this came out last fall.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 17:52 (five years ago) link
i'm guessing the caution has to do with the fact that this is some anonymous Twitter account ? I mean this seems pretty believable to me, I don't really know jack about Tool but even I know the stories surrounding Maynard which are very very similar to this one.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 17:58 (five years ago) link
Yeah, it's possible some outlets are trying to get in touch, hear from MJK's reps, whatever. I noticed Kim Kelly mentioned it on her feed so it's definitely getting out there.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:02 (five years ago) link
also that, plus the fact that tool is kind of outside the purview of a lot of music sites these days
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:07 (five years ago) link
(in the way that a lot of rock bands are)
A reporter would probably want to speak to the tweeter (even if agreeing to keep her anonymous) before writing it up. The fact that she doesn't name the city also complicates things, as a reporter can't put the musician's reps on the spot re: what he remembers doing during NiN's set that year in that particular city, etc. But, again, this may also inspire others to come forward (on the record).
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:11 (five years ago) link
Also maybe someone in his organization, who was aware of the behavior, will come forward.
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:12 (five years ago) link
a lot of this is playing out on reddit fwiw and even the "he did nothing wrong" defenses contain some questionable behavior
(there are earlier threads on this kind of thing too, both on the old internet and reddit. like this one -- obviously, as an anonymous reddit thread, a lot of what's in this earlier thread is probably BS, but probably not *all* of it https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1qs3yr/former_groupies_of_reddit_what_was_your/ )
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:15 (five years ago) link
Darius Rucker story checks out
― frogbs, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:26 (five years ago) link
A woman I knew in college talked about how the guitar player of a well-known band hit on her when she was a high-school senior visiting the college, and the band was there playing Spring Weekend. She was still pretty disgusted by it, a few years later. (And this band was as far as it's possible to get from a swaggering, cock-rock type band... not that that matters.)
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:37 (five years ago) link
the "he did nothing wrong" defenses contain some questionable behavior
jesus some of those are horrifying in how matter-of-factly they describe some pretty gross, at best, behavior.
― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:55 (five years ago) link
those defenses also made me recall Iwas17HeWas36 writing "I’m sure to some this doesn’t sound like rape." i wonder how many of her readers said "yup" to that.
― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 18:58 (five years ago) link
I just realized that reddit thread is 4 years old. It's due for an update.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:04 (five years ago) link
xp this thread is a different, older thread than the thread about the guy from Tool (where the "he did nothing wrong" stuff was coming from)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:10 (five years ago) link
ah, thanks. i was thinking specifically of this comment on the maynard reddit thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/ToolBand/comments/8trvn3/woman_on_twitter_accuses_maynard_of_sexually/e1a50qc/
Passes for Maynard are different than the normal backstage pass for the show. A couple examples I can think of (and one I own that I received personally when they were out of normal ones) has a collage of women in KISS makeup sucking dick or other sexual acts. An APC one had a picture of Maynard in Roman garb that said "Have you serviced your gladiator today?" or something similar. There are no illusions about what you are there for.
and
Maynard makes an appearance in the room, might make some chitchat, and then leaves. His security staff will then approach whichever 1 or 2 women that Maynard has selected for the night
― fact checking cuz, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:19 (five years ago) link
I was thinking more about accounts of former groupies in general (not necessarily Tool fans). I wonder whether redditors' reactions would be the same now.
xp
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:21 (five years ago) link
yeah that comment is both a) gross and b) consistent with stories I've heard about other musicians
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:21 (five years ago) link
most groupies aren't getting raped though. some people are just down to fuck a famous person.
― how's life, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 19:27 (five years ago) link