"4:13 Dream" by the Cure

I had no idea that Austin was Jason Cooper's mom.

I'm not one to really pick up on drumming in music so can't really judge on that front. However, and I'm just guessing, I doubt Jason has much of a rapport with Robert or Simon so I tend to see him as part of what went wrong with this band.

Eh, I don't think you get to stay in a band for 20 years if you don't have any musical rapport with the guitarist who runs it or his bassist best friend.

For sure. Also worth remembering that during the band's pop/peak years, head on the door through wish, the other guys in the band, from Boris to Porl to Simon, were all bringing musical ideas. there is no Cure without Robert, but the Cure at its best was more collaborative than people give the other guys credit for.

I mean, let's just look at Wild Mood Swings: it's got 'Gone!', 'The 13th', and 'Jupiter Crash.' All that's covered in just those three songs is pretty diverse.

I personally love Boris' contributions to the band, but I'm really getting tired of people thinking you can't like both eras equally. It's like, you have to love one and hate the other. Besides being unfair, it's just a really immature way to view things.

And I'm still waiting for someone to try and tell me that the Swing Tour and/or the Dream tour were crap. You won't, because it's not true.

Totally as an aside: don't get it twisted, Simon has contributed just as many musical ideas to the band as Robert has. The foundation of the group is Robert and Simon, and that's been the case since 1984.

(((((I am very much enjoying how ridiculously geeky this thread got))))

people thinking you can't like both eras equally.

Who in the world thinks both eras are equal?

Jason was unfortunate enough to join the band at a point where they really needed to prove to everyone they could still cut it after pivotal line-up changes and during a very different musical climate to the one in which Wish, and the band ended up delivering one of their worst records. However, as much as I like some of the material on the post-Wish records, he just doesn't have the feel or character that Lol, Anderson or Williams brought - as people have said.

Simon has indeed contributed many ideas, as have Porl, Roger, Lol, Boris etc. - although unsure how he contributed 'em in 1984 when he wasn't in the band.

*the one in which they released Wish

I wouldn't go so far as to say pre- and post-WMS Cure are "equal" but post-WMS Cure is still great and I love most of it as much as I love pre-WMS Cure.

My favorite Cure album will always be Pornography; this doesn't mean that I think they've gone downhill since then.

I get that. But WMS and beyond to my ears have not much really going for them beyond being by The Cure, which I suppose is better than no Cure, but I literally never want to listen to them. As I'm sure we've all talked about before, I think many would also prefer a remastered and expanded Wish at this point over a new Cure album. I think that says a lot.

Screw the albums Jason plays on - just listening to the old songs (esp stuff from Porn that have insane drumming) hearing Boris play those songs you're like "GODDAAMN!" hearing Jason play them you're like "ok"

Jason was better than Boris on "100 Years" on the tours I saw.

not arguing with you but if you want to a/b them

boris 1992: https://youtu.be/uRm3qJ7UwMs?t=2458

jason 2000: https://youtu.be/JMLMT0G2MS0?t=5183

boris is actually playing the whole thing himself doing double bass dave lombardo shit... jason is playing to a drum machine and adding a bit of hi hat and not much else...

i mean i will always see them live no matter what lol

A couple of things:

1) I never said Boris and Jason eras were equal. I said that people behave like you're not allowed to like both equally.

2) Simon's time in the Cure runs as follows: 79-spring 82, late 84-early 95, mid 96-present. Don't fuck up Simon's contributions.

simon was out of the cure for a year between 95 and 96?

COGASM / Wrong Number were done while Simon was out too, and I think he quit another brief time this century.

I had no idea that Austin was Jason Cooper's mom.

― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Wednesday, August 2, 2017 7:11 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

LOL!

Screw the albums Jason plays on - just listening to the old songs (esp stuff from Porn that have insane drumming) hearing Boris play those songs you're like "GODDAAMN!" hearing Jason play them you're like "ok"

Jason's feel is way too loose and slightly behind the beat on the old stuff live and his contributions in the studio just don't elevate the songs in the way any of the previous drummers' did. Just imagine Last Dace or If Only Tonight We Could Sleep without Boris's drum patterns, they're a huge part of what makes the band's older records so incredible.

COGASM / Wrong Number were done while Simon was out too, and I think he quit another brief time this century.

Not true, but carry on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrong_Number_(song)

Personnel
Robert Smith – vocals, guitar, bass, keyboards
Jason Cooper – drums
Reeves Gabrels – guitar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COGASM

COGASM is a side project of singer Robert Smith of The Cure, drummer Jason Cooper and guitarist Reeves Gabrels. The first two letters of the members' surnames were taken to form the group's name,[1] which is properly spelled with all capital letters. The band was put together for the one-time purpose of creating a song for the soundtrack to the movie Orgazmo.

Hehehe! Was just about to say the same thing...

Which proves Simon quit, how exactly?

Also, Andy was not able to play the triplets on '100 Years' either, so he must be crap, right?

I mean, all of this stuff is documented in the booklet for Join the Dots. And there's nothing about Simon taking a leave of absence after Wild Mood Swings.

cogasm may not include simon but maybe they just did that some day simon was on vacation.

'Wrong Number' and 'A Sign From God' were Robert and Reeves' pet projects.

And, it's funny DJP, how you copy that from the Wiki article, but leave out the very next sentence, which is:

The single, "A Sign From God," appeared on the Orgazmo soundtrack, 1998. The song "Wrong Number" was recorded in the same session by the same formation, but instead credited to "The Cure" and released on the band's greatest hits Galore.

Come on, man.

I'd rather hear Andy Anderson play 'One Hundred Years' than hear Jason Cooper spunk his excessive cymbals all over most of The Cure's back catalogue.

The Cure have done some great, interesting work without Gallup. Maybe if Robert ever freshens the band up, Mark E. Smith style, he can get rid of Gallup as well as Cooper and we can have another unique Cure period like the 1983-1984 era.

no

If anything we got that with the keyboard free Reeves period, right?

If The Fall could survive without Steve Hanley, and New Order could survive without Peter Hook, then The Cure could survive without Gallup. Japanese Whispers and The Top still sound great.

"Surviving" ≠ thriving

New Order arguably started to turn crap while Hooky was still in the band (Lost Sirens, anyone? Thought not) and the Fall has never been anything near as consistent as New Order or the Cure, so stop it.

And, besides there was that brief period, post-self-titled, pre-Porl rejoining where the band was a trio again (RS, Simon, and Jason). They did some live-in-studio performances that were forgettable, at best.

At this point, it should be very clear that the band is Robert and Simon. If they split ways again, that's a wrap for the Cure.

Jason should go solo.

Nah, I could totally see Robert surrounding himself with an entirely new band - rather than established Curepeople - and having it inspire and reinvigorating him. The Cure is Robert, after all - he is and always has been the chief. Even if other band members contribute - and plenty of them have over the years - the final call is always made by Robert.

But, y'know, we're getting distracted from the real issue here, and that's that Jason Cooper is the worst drummer The Cure have ever had.

*inspiring

Also, Andy was not able to play the triplets on '100 Years' either, so he must be crap, right?

uhh
https://youtu.be/ApKZ1mOLbIY?t=2721

ok yah he's not doing the drum machine triplet bass hits but goddamn he's fucking killing it!

the drums on "gone!" are good

I'm gonna have to stop you both and say those aren't triplets, they're 16th notes.

ty ty

No Cure drummer has replicated the drum machine pattern on 'One Hundred Years' exact. On Trilogy, Cooper plays along to the drum machine pattern, on In Orange, Boris does no such thing.

Jason Cooper is the worst drummer The Cure have ever had.

http://drummerszone.media/artists/2000/6684-08252010154446.jpg

haha yah lol sucked but he made the drum machine patterns work live in an intriguing way

I'm just amazed at the size of his kit in that photo. Did he even hit anything besides the hi-hat, kick, snare, and occasionally the crash cymbal?

(of course he did, I'm just joking)

You can show me all the pictures of Lol Tolhurst you want, Jason Cooper is still the worst drummer The Cure have ever had. Lol had limited ability, but he was right for The Cure at that time and many of his drum patterns are highly memorable. Jason Cooper had utilised whatever talent he has to create nothing significant and has never been right for The Cure.

*has

Even image-wise he has always looked out of place... I remember seeing a picture of the Smith/Gallup/Thompson/Cooper line-up all clad in make-up and it was like "spot the one that doesn't look right" ...

I mean, I dislike Wild Mood Swings a lot and I think that statement on Jason is super overblown, particularly in the context of the work he did on 4:13 Dream

Actually, I'd go as far as saying that, aside from the odd dud track here and there, the two main things that ruin post-Wish Cure are bad production decisions and Jason Cooper.