sometime i read christgau and am amazed...

No, I meant the thread that John just linked to. I'm scared...

BTW, what I was ever so feebly tryin' to get at above, was that occasionally Xgau seems to let his principles get in the way of his ears; particularly in regard to Death Certificate, I'd say, from which I'm almost certain that if you were to magically delete a track or two, Bob would automatically upgrade it to an A- or--dare I say it--perhaps even a solid A,.

Concerning the musical quality of the other two, I simply don't agree with him; not that they're perfect records or anything--just a lot better than he seems willing to admit to. Largely, I think, due to whatever questionable ethical assumption he may have formed for whatever reason. Such is life.

has anyone asked him if he's changed his mind at all about Appetite?

can't imagine why he would.

i like it, but the problems he has with it still exist. he'd probably still prefer the spaghetti incident.

occasionally Xgau seems to let his principles get in the way of his ears

But don't we all let our principles get in the way of our ears? Or rather, isn't it impossible NOT to let them get in the way? I suppose we should all aspire to listening as selflessly as possible, to hear something as if it were totally disconnected for our (or ultimately anyone else's) experiences. And I don't mean that facetiously. That really is a beautiful goal. But that kind of formalism is just as much a principle as any other kind of stance towards music.

In any event, Xgau acknowledges that he'd give the GNR EP a C+ had it not been for "One in a Million" (and maybe some other tracks). And I don't see much wrong with that.

It may be impossible to hear "One in a Million" without the baggage. But if we could, how compelling a track is it really? (I know you weren't saying it was compelling, John. Just throwing it out there.)

haha--here it is, Kevin (This is the thread where you ask for help in parsing one of Robert Christgau's sentences.). Read it and weep.

Oh gawd, THAT one! Yes, I've read some of that. Ugly shit. Would it anger the ILX gods if I, a decided non-hater, started a new, less contentious thread?

i guarantee any such thread would still be contentious no matter how it started

Eric Weisbard discusses "One in a Million" in his 33 1/3 book; he seems inclined to think it "just" a nasty joke. I have to find the reference.

Dammit! I'm trying to find a link to that q&a he did for Scott on Rockcritics.com without any sucess. Anybody out there got it?

Here:

http://rockcriticsarchives.com/interviews/robertchristgau/01.html

I'll still take Chuck's take of "One in a Millio" (from STH) over any other I've come across.

xp

Ah, you are most kind. Thank ye.

His reply to this bit always annoyed the hell out of me, fwiw:

> >From: Dave Q
> >Date: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 3:32 AM

Hi Dean! You are truly God-like and I know all your books inside out and back to front--as a writer you are without peer. (The Dave Mason section in the '70s CG book is the best comedy writing I have ever seen.) However, this question is directed to the "critic" more than the "writer"--does it ever bother you that many of the acts dismissed as "meltdown" or "D-" in earlier CGs have gone on to be revered and subject to massive critical re-estimation (e.g. Black Sabbath, Tim Buckley), while others who you championed (e.g., various singer-songwriters) have vanished without trace, and their records aren't even in print anymore? When current bands that you like cite Rush, Japan and Montrose as "influences" does it elicit a benign chuckle, or a Homer Simpson forehead-slap, or do you see it as more depressing evidence that civilization really is ending? I'm just wondering how this affects writers in general as we're in a unique period in history where the pioneers of a sub-genre (rockcrit) are still active but have now been around long enough to see what effect their ideas have had on pop music, or pop music discourse at least.

It's never occurred to me that '70s AOR/art-rock is responsible for the shallowness of today's pop, such as it is. Studio virtuosity has been a law unto itself in pop since before the rock era.

(at least the description of Axl's voice as a power drill is there as a putdown *or* a compliment, depending on what you like, and ditto some other putdowns that got me buying and liking some albums he low-rated [and Chuck's mentioned having the same experiece], so hey, some good journalism at times)Re "One In A Million": Since Axl *brought it up,* sticks his *social commentary in yo face,* as he probably would have put it at the time, he's trying to *push your button,* as well as *get something off my chest,* so surely warrants
*a significant opposing viewpoint,* as the FCC used to mandate for TV editorials (remmeber those? On your local affiliate of the three coommerical networks, and I guess if you had a local UHF indie station, would apply to that too). The music's not that hot(esp not by Appetite For Destruction-established standards), and most entertaining line is the one after squealing about "police and niggers" and "immigrants and faggots,"about worrying that furriners might start "some mini-Iran," apparently meaning they might might be *intolerant.*

Actually (though there's no reason Xgau or Anthony or Don or Kevin or anybody else should necessarily agree with this, if they don't) the music of "One In A Million" is pretty hot -- it's one of GnR's best post-Appetite songs, musically and otherwise (and its story, as I've said about a million times, is pretty much exactly the same story X told in "Los Angeles," just first person instead of third person -- not to mention not far from the story that Axl tells in most of the songs on Appetite, which is the same story that Donna Summer tells in most of the songs on Bad Girls). Also, fwiw, GnR Lies isn't an EP; it's an album (maybe the second best one -- and, at worst, the third-best one -- GnR ever made). And Slash's guitar playing is much better than a "hype." (There's a good and contentious "One In A Million" thread around here somewhere -- GnR vs Aaliyah -- but the search function, as often happens, is only turning up "I Love Everything" threads right now.)

It's sung pretty well too.

I've changed my mind about it over the years. What used to gall me was, as usual, how easily a song sung "in character" was taken seriously by assholes. Whatever -- that was high school. And Donna Summer said some nasty shit away from a recording studio, so.

Yep, great thread:

Aaliyah's "One in a Million" vs. Guns N'Roses' "One in a Million"

^^^ Definitely.

I commented on that thread, and have since changed my mind. I sound like Richard Goldstein or somebody.

Yeah, it took this here immigrant a while to come to terms with this one as well. But then, "It's all Greek to me."

his "shooting STAAAAAAAAAARR" vocals would bother me even if he left out the naughty word part. music's neither here nor there for me. not impressed by x's lyrics either.

JN$OT: Question you don't have to answer - who are you (if you have a name I might recognize, which I have a feeling you do. If not, disregard.)? Just curious.

I'm not really anybody in particular, Rev. Just another obsessive music geek lookin' to kill some time and have a few laffs while doing so. Also, despite my lame login, y'all can call me John (or Ioannis, as my mama named me).

Oh, alright. I was under the impression, for whatever reasons, that you were some crit type.

"Taken seriously by assholes": sounds like you're taking its words seriously too, seriously enough to defend by snarling (which is appropriate, given the song) (but the great "Denounce Public Enemy for harboring Professor Griff!" "Fuck you, denounce 'One In A Million' first!" family feeyood among rock critics should not be revived, though I can't resist mentioning it, being an asshole)9but also a lazy asshole, so I got no more to say about this, except:xpost xxhuxx if Exene had put the girl in "Los Angeles" up front, first person in our faces (as she kinda did in a Re:Search interview, denoucning "faggots" takin' over the at world etc), instead of flying away, I prob would have had the same reaction, except I like the music of that better)(as I like some of the other songs on Lies better than "One In A Million"). Reading fans! Read Luc Sante's new collection, Kill Your Darlings (speaking of glametal titles, although this one is also advice from Faulkner)

Except maybe you're not defending it, in which case,sorry for reading you wrong.

as i recall, xgau says greil marcus refused to speak to him for a while after reading a piece of his on public enemy, on the grounds that he (xgau) was "defending their anti-semitism" or somesuch.

chuck OTM re interchangeability of "los angeles" and "one in a million," except that the protagonist of the former's been there too long and the latter's just got there.

the voice music section is so much better now

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000002KMV.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

(as she kinda did in a Re:Search interview, denoucning "faggots" takin' over the at world etc)

OMG! Exene said this? Where exactly?

Another in the "you don't have to answer" category: John, do you live in the States?

And Donna Summer said some nasty shit away from a recording studio, so.

Can we get some concrete evidence of this? I've heard she said that AIDS was God's punishment for homosexuals. Adn where did she "poke nervous fun at the gay men who made her a star?" References? Wikipedia needs a citation for the area of the Donna Summer entry.

OK, so my 1st guess was more or less correct. But then it just seems like he was using perverse syntax to say something straightforward. (I'm still not sure that sentence makes sense. "They're a one-idea group who deserve only that much attention" has one less word in it.) I'm not even sure I get that criticism though. Would it be better if there was no one theme or organizing principle to an eclectic 20-minute track? Is "Marquee Moon" less of a one-idea piece? Is he just saying "Instead of writing lots of different short songs like a rock band should, they're so obsessed with this one dumbass 'seasons of man' idea that they try to connect them all to this one idea?"

Kevin, the Re: Search issue with the Exene interview (odd-size trade binding)is in the Fine Arts stacks at my local library: I'll check the issue no., page no. soon as I can get back over there (this interview really was *a long, long time ago*, she might well have changed quite a lot, and who knows how it was edited.Guess the point of the song was people who get stressed by living in L.A., zooming in on somebody to blame. I know she's said in recent interviews that, no matter how much better her life there got, like with her dayjob as a teaching assistant at her kid's school, she'd saved up til she could buy a house in Missouri, and when she'd saved some more, would move out there permanently, as I think she's since done [still tours with X, and records with her other band] Also in the Re: Search interview, interesting stuff about her life in Florida, before moving to L.A.

Thanx, Dow!!

Sundar to answer your questions in order:

Would it be better if there was no one theme or organizing principle to an eclectic 20-minute track?

No, it would be better if there was no one LAME theme or... Lame to Xgau, natch.

Is "Marquee Moon" less of a one-idea piece?

Well, if you're asking Xgau, he'd undoubtedly say yes. Or maybe that the one idea is a great one. Or waaaay greater than "the seasons of man."

Is he just saying "Instead of writing lots of different short songs like a rock band should, they're so obsessed with this one dumbass 'seasons of man' idea that they try to connect them all to this one idea?"

He'd never require a rock band to write short songs. As you intimated, he adores "Marquee Moon." And he loves The Grateful Dead who wrote/played longer than Yes ever did. But yes, he believes that Yes is obsessed with this seasons of man theme and that they do try to connect their songs (long or short) to it. And the songs are poorer for it.

Can we get some concrete evidence of this? I've heard she said that AIDS was God's punishment for homosexuals. Adn where did she "poke nervous fun at the gay men who made her a star?"

Skimming through her vapid autobiography a few years ago at B&N, she alluded to how the most intense part of her Christian phase drove her to say nasty things, and the gay stuff was one of them. I may be remembering it incorrectly, but I'm pretty sure she apologized to The Gays.

Yeah, I got the letter. :)

the voice music section is so much better now

Seriously, you have got to be kidding! As I'm certain Kogan and others would be only too happy to attest to, the Voice music section started goin' downhill as soon as the powers that be imposed ever more stringently limited word counts on reviews.

John, do you live in the States?

Nope. I've been living in Greece since '93, Kevin; hence my keeping such odd hours--as far as American posters are concerned, that is--on ILX.

upthread somebody, I think Ned, predicted Jonathan Gold's pulitzer prize three years before it happened!

has xgau reviewed boz scaggs or art garfunkel in rolling stone yet?

i don't think Joe Levy would allow Xgau to throw himself under the train, unless Bob really did love a new Scaggs or Garfunkel album (you never know, though I wouldn't bet on it). That suggesting either have a new album to submit. Maybe Xgau could wait for Mick Jagger's 2010 opus, surely a work of genius percolating with his MIckness and a future superstar to be named later....

Maybe--however, I do not really see that happening until Wenner has rather unceremoniously kicked the bucket, ya know.

Cass Elliott: Don't Call Me Mama Anymore [RCA Victor, 1973]
How about Fatso? D

what an asshole

Agreed. Dude is the worst.

rip

The E.N.D. [Interscope, 2009]
How dare people call this wondrous album--actual quotes, now--"insipid," "saccharine," "clumsy"? Only I don't mean people--I mean journalists professional and self-appointed, from rockist sourpusses to keepers of the hip-hop flame. Just plain people love it--love it so much that various of its tracks topped the pop charts nonstop for the entire summer. "Party All the Time" is no more a recipe for living than is instant Wi-Fi for all, the message of the supposedly "political" "Now Generation." But in a party anthem it's the definition of intelligence. Sampling classic rap rapaciously and as cool with Auto-Tune as with getting their drunk on, they party beginning to end, which as it happens is a far rarer achievement than signifying beginning to end. Maybe this album is dumb on the surface, though not as much as fools claim. But sure as showbiz it isn't dumb underneath. A

Master of Reality [Warner Bros., 1971]
As an increasingly regretful spearhead of the great Grand Funk switch, in which critics redefined GFR as a 1971 good old-fashioned rock and roll band even though I've never met a critic (myself included) who actually played the records, I feel entitled to put this in its place. Grand Funk is like an American white blues band of three years ago--dull. Black Sabbath is English--dull and decadent. I don't care how many rebels and incipient groovies are buying. I don't even care if the band members believe in their own Christian/satanist/liberal murk. This is a dim-witted, amoral exploitation. C-

Everyone Who Pretended to Like Me Is Gone [Startime International, 2002] (The Walkmen)
Just what we always wanted--Jonathan Fire*Eater grows up. Put some DreamWorks money into a studio, that was mature. Realized Radiohead was the greatest band in the world, brainy. Stopped playing so fast, hoo boy. And most important, switched vocalists from Nick Cave imitator to Rufus Wainwright imitator. Wainwright makes up better melodies with a dick in his mouth, and not only that, Cave has more literary ability.

I obviously hate this review for the dumb, offensive dick "gag," but it's also just so tin-eared. Radiohead? Rufus Wainwright? What he is he even talking about?

It's most embarassing that he stumped for a band as terrible as the walkmen, but he's otm about the peas