It's clear to me that the band wanted IR to sound that way, I don't fault NG for following their wishes, and tbh it was (and still is) refreshing in the context of their discography to have a strong set of songs presented without much sonic embellishment
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Saturday, 10 June 2017 21:52 (seven years ago) link
In Rainbows sounds fantastic, the opening guitar on 15 step is so beautiful
― niels, Saturday, 10 June 2017 22:01 (seven years ago) link
I know they wanted it to sound that way. I don't think they really needed much. But the thing is bone-dry. It's a radio session.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 10 June 2017 22:03 (seven years ago) link
In Rainbows remains to me the best record Radiohead have made post-Kid A and flappy bird is continuing to be wrong about the production - there's fucking reverbs all over the thing, hardly "dry" ...
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 11 June 2017 16:21 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, what the hell, man? In Rainbows has crazy textures and a very warm sound.
― Austin, Sunday, 11 June 2017 16:23 (seven years ago) link
Flappy bird logic: the snare isn't treated like it's on a Bryan Adams record = dry production. Have you even fucking listened to 'All I Need'!?
xpost:
Indeed. I don't know why flappy bird is from where he keeps hearing radio sessions produced like In Rainbows. Narnia, probably.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 11 June 2017 16:26 (seven years ago) link
*why=where
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Sunday, 11 June 2017 16:27 (seven years ago) link
In Rainbows is beautifully produced. I never thought about it as being 'dry'. My difficulty with it is that even though it has some of their best songs, I can't find a satisfying 'through-line' with that one. It's sequenced in this way where it kicks off with two hectic bangers and then mellows out until by the end it's almost fizzled out into something slightly dull. It's not that the songs are individually boring but they just don't sit alongside each other so well. I'd have preferred it if they'd released 15 Step and Bodysnatchers as a separate single and made IR a bit more like AMSP. This is a problem with almost all Radiohead albums since HTTT - even AMSP, which is kind of a perfect LP in terms of shape and structure were it not for Burn The Witch working as a false start
― Shat Parp (dog latin), Sunday, 11 June 2017 16:55 (seven years ago) link
So, flappy, I'm. . . uhh. . . interested in. . . hrm. . .
. . .not really sure how to say this. . .
. . .oh, BOLLOCKS, I'll just say it: HOW DO I GET TO NARNIA, MAN?
And don't say the freaking wardrobe. This is 2017.
― Austin, Sunday, 11 June 2017 16:57 (seven years ago) link
i too would like to get to narnia
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 11 June 2017 17:04 (seven years ago) link
In Rainbows has some of my favourite production on a pop record ever!
― Tomorrow Begat Tomorrow (Sund4r), Sunday, 11 June 2017 18:30 (seven years ago) link
I forgot all about the weird song choices and sequencing for 'In Rainbows'. I ended up making my own, with songs from 'Disc 2,' and forgot that wasn't the normal sequence!
01. 15 Step02. Bangers & Mash03. Up On the Ladder04. Nude05. Arpeggi06. Mk. 107. Videotape08. Faust Arp09. Reckoner10. Go Slowly11. House of Cards12. 4 Minute Warning
I don't remember dryness being an issue per se, just. . . boring production? But on the whole the songs are so much stronger than 'Hail to the Thief' that I felt reasonably content with the record at the time. But it's far more settled-in and comfortable, a "rock record," more than 'A Moon Shaped Pool'. .
― Soundslike, Sunday, 11 June 2017 19:26 (seven years ago) link
the thing was just never immersive for me like every other Radiohead record. i agree that the production is boring, also a record can sound dry even w/ reverb - the production on In Rainbows sounds like preset ProTools plugins. Calling it a radio session is a pox on radio sessions - In Rainbows isn't even super saturated like a good Peel Session. Dog Latin's point about the sequencing is spot on, it just drops off, and imo a lot of the best stuff (Last Flowers til the Hospital, Down is the New Up, Bangers & Mash, Up on the Ladder) was relegated to the bonus disc. But I like every song on Hail to the Thief more than anything on In Rainbows proper, though Last Flowers til the Hospital is one of my favorite Radiohead songs ever.
― flappy bird, Sunday, 11 June 2017 20:32 (seven years ago) link
I've never listened to Bryan Adams. 😜
do you not have the same issues with boring production with the bonus disc?
― Josh (phantompenguin), Sunday, 11 June 2017 21:06 (seven years ago) link
Yeah. But I find the songs more compelling.
― flappy bird, Sunday, 11 June 2017 21:11 (seven years ago) link
And I think the production serves Last Flowers til the Hospital really well.
That's cool.
So. . . uhm. . . the whole Narnia thing, then?
― Austin, Sunday, 11 June 2017 21:46 (seven years ago) link
I've got your back on In Rainbows flappy, there are some really character-free, home recording-ish drum sounds on that record. Not all of it - 'Reckoner' sounds amazing, with a cool crushed kit sound smashed to one one side and one of the best tambourine sounds ever on the other. But Weird Fishes and some of the others have that super dry drum sound that I'm not into. I'm sure a lot went into it but it sounds like throwing up some 57s and calling it a day.
― change display name (Jordan), Sunday, 11 June 2017 22:20 (seven years ago) link
Flappy bird, Jordan, might it be the relatively flat dynamics of In Rainbows pressing your buttons? Everything sounds a bit boxed and breathless overall, it's the one thing I would change about the album, which I think if push came to shove is my favourite. However I'm one of those people who found them bombastic up until Kid A, which changed my opinion drastically, and thus my feelings about HTTT and IR are almost the perfect inverse of FB's, excepting that I agree "Last Flowers" is wonderful. Would not change a molecule of "Weird Fishes" which is a lock for my all-time top ten.
― attention vampire (MatthewK), Sunday, 11 June 2017 22:29 (seven years ago) link
I'm sure a lot went into it but it sounds like throwing up some 57s and calling it a day.
otm. i really liked all the IR songs when I heard the summer 2006 shows, and I probably listened to the March 2005 orchestral performance of Arpeggi hundreds of times before I heard that wack ass version on the record. So my hostility towards IR has a lot to do with living with the songs for a year or two and having preconceived notions about how they would sound. And it's not like I married to any one arrangement or sound - I was just expecting something a little less brittle and amateur sounding. I don't know how anyone could prefer the album version of Arpeggi to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsYTXqVySy0
― flappy bird, Sunday, 11 June 2017 22:47 (seven years ago) link
Otm, orchestral radiohead needs to happen on a future basis
― nice cage (m bison), Sunday, 11 June 2017 22:48 (seven years ago) link
Ha Ha Ha, Oh Wow
― Austin, Sunday, 11 June 2017 23:10 (seven years ago) link
Sorry shd say full time basis but whatever
― nice cage (m bison), Sunday, 11 June 2017 23:23 (seven years ago) link
The production on 'Weird Fishes/Arpeggi' could not be more on the money, IMO. I really wouldn't want it to sound any other way - besides, I generally trust Radiohead's judgement with regards to the final versions of their tracks.
I certainly trust it more than the judgement of someone that can't comprehend that wet =/= dry, anyway.
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Monday, 12 June 2017 06:26 (seven years ago) link
I listened to In Rainbows yesterday. The production isn't the problem at all - it's lush - but it's the fact the songs qua songs are a bit boring. Yorke's lyrics are at their most obfuscated and most of the tunes are based on a repetitious riff that goes on for an interminable amount of time. The production saves it, but they'd sound awfully dull on acoustic. I don't think that would be the case with AMSP songs which seem more considered and structured-out
― Shat Parp (dog latin), Monday, 12 June 2017 08:46 (seven years ago) link
yesterday's show opened with Daydreaming, but instead of going into Desert Island Disk afterwards they did Lucky! Twas then I knew we were in for a treat... check out this encore:
Encore:You and Whose Army?There ThereParanoid AndroidLotus FlowerKarma Police
http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/radiohead/2017/adalen-aarhus-denmark-13e751a5.html
― niels, Monday, 12 June 2017 09:09 (seven years ago) link
ooof! Three of my favourite songs in there. I've still not seen them live yet, despite being a fan for at least 22 years..
― Shat Parp (dog latin), Monday, 12 June 2017 09:12 (seven years ago) link
Yorke's lyrics are at their most obfuscated
You say that like it's a bad thing. In Rainbows is their best. I'm not an audiophile like some here, but the production sounds great to me.
― chap, Monday, 12 June 2017 14:41 (seven years ago) link
what is the difference between an 'arrangement' and a 'song' xxxxxxxp
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 12 June 2017 14:52 (seven years ago) link
The song is the chords, melody and lyrics. The arrangement is the cellos and wooshing noises etc.
― chap, Monday, 12 June 2017 15:04 (seven years ago) link
wooshing noises probably better ascribed to "production" as opposed to "arrangement" if we're going to be pedants
― nice cage (m bison), Monday, 12 June 2017 15:04 (seven years ago) link
I'm working through the Radio head albums this week. my god King of Limbs is a terrible album. what the heck is Feral all about? Why those drums on In Bloom? How was Codex even considered to be anything other than a b-side? I'll keep Give Up the Ghost and Little by Little. The rest is just bad
― Shat Parp (dog latin), Monday, 12 June 2017 16:22 (seven years ago) link
this makes in bloom make a lot more sense. this album is sort of radiohead trying to be 'remain in light' era talking heads i think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2084nQbmvk
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 12 June 2017 16:25 (seven years ago) link
in fact this video is about 10x better than the album track
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 12 June 2017 16:27 (seven years ago) link
That version of Bloom is phenomenal. It sounds like the universe being born. The studio cut is a damp fart in comparison.
what the heck is Feral all about?
At last me a DL agree on something Radiohead related. It's maybe the most nothingy thing they've ever done. I think it's maybe supposed to be their take on dubstep?
― chap, Monday, 12 June 2017 16:48 (seven years ago) link
Lotus Flower is great though. Such a seductive little melody on the verses.
― chap, Monday, 12 June 2017 16:49 (seven years ago) link
Problem with Radiohead is that when they try and 'be' people (like Talking Heads or Aphex Twin) they usually end up sounding like they missed the point. In Bloom sounds like something off Byrne's Catherine Wheel album but with all the funky low end stripped out. Similarly, Radiohead's IDM and dubstep moments felt like copycatting, with none of the charm left in.
― Shat Parp (dog latin), Monday, 12 June 2017 16:57 (seven years ago) link
― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Monday, June 12, 2017 2:26 AM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah i understand that there is reverb on All I Need. it still sounds airless and artificial and like a ProTools preset. i.e. amateurish, home recording, radio session, whatever. it's not the reverb on Exit Music, for example.
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 June 2017 17:15 (seven years ago) link
Similarly, Radiohead's IDM and dubstep moments felt like copycatting
I think this is unfair on the IDM front. You don't like Everything in its Right Place or Idioteque?
― chap, Monday, 12 June 2017 17:18 (seven years ago) link
yeah I was gonna say I feel like "Idioteque" was a huge gamble that paid off. But reading criticism from the time and even posts from here, people that were already super familiar with Warp and BoC and RDJ were rolling their eyes at Kid A. makes sense to me, but as a kid, those records where they go off in all these different directions (even the jazzy song at the end of Amnesiac) were a great gateway.
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 June 2017 17:20 (seven years ago) link
the criticism of kid a for supposedly trying and failing to rip off can, autechre, alice coltrane remains the dumbest fucking thing i've ever heard in my life. it was a common critical trope back then and it still bubbles up today like a piece of shit squeezing up out of the back of toddler underwear
― Karl Malone, Monday, 12 June 2017 17:26 (seven years ago) link
the only common early 2000s pop criticism that is at the same level of wrongness is the thing where everyone said interpol was a joy division ripoff band, and i don't even like interpol
― Karl Malone, Monday, 12 June 2017 17:27 (seven years ago) link
"turn down the protools preset knob on the reverb. yes. now max out the 'air' dial. precisely. now please do flip the toggle switch from amateurish to professional."
― Gaspard de la Nuit: III. ScarJost (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 12 June 2017 17:44 (seven years ago) link
I was one of the eye-rollers but I always liked EIIRP and Idioteque. When I say IDM/post-dubstep, I mean songs like Pull-Pulk Revolving Doors, Kid A, the Eraser album, lots of TKOL and whatnot. It's not terrible, just not very convincing or satisfying or better than the music it's being influenced by.Radiohead are definitely 'record-collection rock' and sometimes it works great (AMSP has lots of little tribute moments filtering throughout) but I do think they're at their best when they're trying to 'be Radiohead'
― Shat Parp (dog latin), Monday, 12 June 2017 17:45 (seven years ago) link
― Karl Malone, Monday, June 12, 2017 1:27 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm i never understood this
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 June 2017 17:52 (seven years ago) link
― Gaspard de la Nuit: III. ScarJost (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, June 12, 2017 1:44 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
"Can you make the snare sound more yellow?" - Julian Casablancas
I am a King of Limbs defender and even I will concede that the Basement version of 'Bloom' makes a sick joke of the album version.
― Austin, Monday, 12 June 2017 18:05 (seven years ago) link
tbf the drums on KoL sound much, much worse than on In Rainbows
― change display name (Jordan), Monday, 12 June 2017 18:21 (seven years ago) link
I was one of the eye-rollers but I always liked EIIRP and Idioteque. When I say IDM/post-dubstep, I mean songs like Pull-Pulk Revolving Doors, Kid A, the Eraser album, lots of TKOL and whatnot.
So basically, you don't like Radiohead doing IDM except when you do.
The textures and sounds they were using may have been borrowed fairly closely from various Warp artists, but they were the first artists that I'm aware of that convincingly combined those things with traditional pop/rock song structures, which is not to be sniffed at.
― chap, Monday, 12 June 2017 19:11 (seven years ago) link