I think Barlow self-identifies as a "Cyberlibertarian" which makes me feel like throwing up a little, but he isn't all wackadoo.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 18:50 (seven years ago) link
Definitely recommend Jesse Jarnow's recent book HEADS for loads of fascinating Dead-related scene reports and characters.
― tylerw, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 18:51 (seven years ago) link
i love that thing cutler said, like "the Dead make some of the best music I've ever heard but let me tell you they are DUMB"
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 19:01 (seven years ago) link
yes, almost a thesis if you will ^^^^
― a (waterface), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link
like almost everything they describe, the touring, the way they did or didnt make decisions, all the hangers on ... it just sounds like my worst nightmare of ppl to spend any time with
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 19:18 (seven years ago) link
but at the same time his passivity and unwillingess to ever change anything -- or most importantly ever take responsibility for anything-- was frustrating
That part where he refused to put any blame on the Hells Angels for murdering Meredith Hunter (and assaulting many others) at Altamont was fucking infuriating. I get that he's super non-confrontational, and wants to be non-authoritarian, but to react to that disaster with a shrug (and to shrug off his own part in it -- he'd recommended the Angels to the Stones as security) is fucking bullshit.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 19:22 (seven years ago) link
^^^ totally
like at some point your no rules anti authoritarian hippie ethos becomes "i am an amoral asshole"
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 19:35 (seven years ago) link
the misogyny was alluded to in the film, i'm sure there's a whole nauseating thing happening there too
― global tetrahedron, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 19:51 (seven years ago) link
definitely a misogynist thing happening w/ the dead, though i suppose very few of their contemporaries employed a female sound engineer (Betty Cantor). Does she show up in the doc?
― tylerw, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 20:17 (seven years ago) link
Nope, not mentioned at all. They interview another Europe '72 engineer, but she doesn't even get name-checked.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 20:25 (seven years ago) link
bummer -- i know betty's relationship w/ the dead world these days is a little fraught (due in part to aforementioned misogynist attitudes)
― tylerw, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 20:32 (seven years ago) link
Steve Parish mentions all the road crew by name (iirc, Stinky, Zippy, RedBong, Beardo), and there's [SPOILER ALERT] approximately 25 minutes of footage of the roadies doing nitrous.
So yeah, mentioning Betty would have meant cutting valuable minutes of nitrous-huffing.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 20:44 (seven years ago) link
no betty but hardly any dick either
― a (waterface), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 21:18 (seven years ago) link
plenty of dick just no Dick
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 22:16 (seven years ago) link
lol
― tylerw, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 22:33 (seven years ago) link
Yeah if you wanna see hippie dongs this is yr documentary
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 22:40 (seven years ago) link
there's a tan blonde gnarly iggy pop looking dude crouched on the stack in one of the early 70's shows, and the next time they cut to him he is standing up & oh hi completely naked
i loled so hard it was just so funny to me
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 23:10 (seven years ago) link
another part i thought was funny was phil pointing out that after 74 and the hiatus something was just missing, there was a hole there. and like five minutes later bob is like 'we just kept getting better and better... and when brent joined we had *three* good singers!!'
― global tetrahedron, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 23:45 (seven years ago) link
xp in dead circles that guy is legendary as "naked pole guy"
― tylerw, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 23:46 (seven years ago) link
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 23:53 (seven years ago) link
Up to the break in 74 it was quite good. Then as mentioned upthread we get Phil saying there was a hole with no exposition. Then the a few seconds of some late 70s footage and then the episode ends and we get to look at interviews of dead heads from the 80s ? Wanted more 70s
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 00:06 (seven years ago) link
Great hearing about Hunter tho
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 00:49 (seven years ago) link
is barlow's role in the eff not really known very well? i knew him as "that eff guy" like several decades before i realized he had anything to do with the dead. i mean "lol cyberlibertarian" or whatever but the eff has done and continues to do good work.
― Cyborg Kickboxer (rushomancy), Wednesday, 7 June 2017 01:18 (seven years ago) link
what is the eff
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 7 June 2017 03:30 (seven years ago) link
...and what's his prolem?
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 7 June 2017 03:39 (seven years ago) link
EFF is gonna rock ya
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 7 June 2017 12:46 (seven years ago) link
they're kinda like the ACLU of the internet
https://www.eff.org/about
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 14:00 (seven years ago) link
Veneta 72 : Dark Star -> El Paso -> Sing Me Back Home
if that doesn't bring you in, then move on, because this is the essence of the Dead imo. from the transcendent to the kinda dumb to a totally different kind of transcendent that they couldn't have reached except through the dumb
nb I call it dumb bc Weir sounds dumb on it, the music is fine o/w
― droit au butt (Euler), Wednesday, 7 June 2017 14:02 (seven years ago) link
― calstars, Tuesday, June 6, 2017 8:06 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah, since the late '70s were a high point, you'd think there'd be more than just the minute of Egypt footage (and the band themselves don't even rate that show highly). That would've been the perfect opportunity to segue into talking about Betty and how the Cornell tape became a thing, and how a bootleg Dead tape made the US National Recording Registry.
With so many docs it's easy to say, "Welp, you can only do so much in 2 hours." This was four, and the most inexplicable omissions would've added 10-20 minutes, tops.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 7 June 2017 14:10 (seven years ago) link
I've tried that "Sing Me Back Home" from Veneta. I like super-slow Jerry ballads, I love "Must Have Been the Roses," but I dunno. Maybe I just revere Merle's original too much, but that affects me way more in 3 minutes than the Dead do in 10+.
― smug dinner-jazz atrocity (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 7 June 2017 18:31 (seven years ago) link
Also enjoyed in the doc Weir and his wife driving to Hunter's gig in his Tesla (huge iPad thing dash gives it away)
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link
*in the dash
was wondering what kind of car that was
― a (waterface), Wednesday, 7 June 2017 19:06 (seven years ago) link
The lack of late '70s was especially odd considering how big a deal the May 1977 box set has been! I too was disappointed by the absence of Betty, especially considering how long she'd been with the band. I certainly would have rather heard more about her than Barbara Meier. Not knowing much of Jerry's personal life, the documentary gave me the impression he and Meier were long lost soul mates, but wikipedia tells me their reunion lasted just 45 days! Seems odd she got so much screen time and only passing mentions of Mountain Girl or his other wives, much less Betty, but perhaps there were access reasons.
― blatherskite, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 21:24 (seven years ago) link
What do you guys think Hunter's greatest lyric is? A lot of his stuff is so playful (dire wolf) or tries too hard to be psychedelic (china cat) so I can't decide where the middle ground is
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 21:29 (seven years ago) link
Xp Meier probably got the time because she was willing to talk.
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 21:31 (seven years ago) link
I mean I do think Hunter is "great" but I think Jerry's delivery was even better on its own terms and lent a lot to the overall impression of Hunter.
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 21:33 (seven years ago) link
I should probably take this discussion to a listserve from '84
― calstars, Wednesday, June 7, 2017 4:29 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
box of rain is beautiful
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 7 June 2017 21:33 (seven years ago) link
IIRC, Betty pops up in that PBS Soundbreaking thing.
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 7 June 2017 21:38 (seven years ago) link
yes Mississippi - always forget that one
Incidentally Leah in his beard phase looks just like Brendan canning from broken social scene
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 21:45 (seven years ago) link
I would have also liked to have heard about the time when Garcia and Lesh were going to get rid of Pigpen and Weir. From pigpen's Wikipedia iirc
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 21:49 (seven years ago) link
Lesh's modern interviews betray a very practiced, rehearsed history. I mean how many times has he told this story? I wish he had dropped some acid beforehand just to get some improvisation. Maybe the cameraman could have dosed his coffee.
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 21:53 (seven years ago) link
Kreutzmann looks nothing like himself and wtf at Mickey's electric string drone thing.
Also I wonder if Weir directed the cameraman to capture his lotus pose. "Take it back there a little"
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 21:55 (seven years ago) link
Yeah I wanted a whole hour on Hart's weird music machine thingy
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 7 June 2017 22:58 (seven years ago) link
Pretty sure it was that thing that scores the "stranger things" intro to each ep
― calstars, Wednesday, 7 June 2017 23:23 (seven years ago) link
Weir's Tesla & his 'Yoga Loft'... any more on the nose & he'd have done the interview under a WELCOME TO MARIN sign
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 8 June 2017 00:48 (seven years ago) link
Between the GD and little feat, the coke must have been epicly heavenly in 77
― calstars, Thursday, 8 June 2017 01:48 (seven years ago) link
Not to mention W Becker
― calstars, Thursday, 8 June 2017 01:59 (seven years ago) link
i think you could make a case for an entire doc on Betty/boots/taping culture/Dick, etc
― a (waterface), Thursday, 8 June 2017 13:27 (seven years ago) link